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Old January 12th, 2006, 08:48 PM
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Flying Crane Posture: An Examination

Flying Crane Posture - An Examination:
Humbly examining the stance in question: Please refer to the image found at:

http://home.austarnet.com.au/tsuruken/p16.htm

I openly and honestly concede that there are probably a few areas I could improve in. This is but one of the pursuits of those involved in the martial arts. After all, nobody's perfect are they?

There are some physical issues and problems ( a lower bad back which causes me grief from time to time to name but one) that forces me to compensate for but it is a work in progress .... again nobody's perfect and I'll be the first to admit it. But this is half the battle. To work, to strive forward is the constant aim nof ALL Martial artists.

Let’s look closely at the Feihe Jugong (Flying Crane Crossed-Leg Stance). An eminent foe for people in this so-called “Modern Society” is stress. Used as a Chi-Gung posture this stance can be used to relieve tension and stress. This is accomplished as the posture; held for a period of time, will relieve the heaviness in the chest region due to stress. As the excess energy travels away from the centre to the hands it is dispersed through the middle and the ring and small fingers as well (Try the posture in a relaxed manner to relieve stress in a fashion to Taiji’s Chi-Gung practices)

That said, let’s focus on how to use this same posture martially as well. This enigmatic posture transmit’s the Yin Fire Element into the hands to disperse into the adversary with devastating effects.

The twisted stance actually focuses the energy rising (Yin) to a stronger degree, transmitting this energy up from the Bubbling Well Point/Gushing Spring (“Yangquan” - K1) and out to the hands. The energy rises to the chest (CV-17, “Shanzong” - Penetrating Odor) and via the outstretched arms, is channeled out to the Laogong point (Labor’s Palace - PC-8) and the last three fingers of the hands (Try the posture for your own self investigation).

In a martial sense the striking hands would best be aimed at Fire or Metal related points. Again studying the posture we see the hands are positioned at head to neck levels and as such are the intended targets are mapped out in this dermatone. Sighting a few of these points for the sake of brevity, include the ST-5 (Daiyang - Big Welcome), ST-9 (Renying - Man’s Welcome), GB-4 (Hanyan - Satisfying Jaw) and GB-14 (Yangbai - Yang White).

Before you say “some of those art Earth points” … I must add that you are correct, yet these are also intersections of other energies and availability as well. The ST-5 is a crossing of the Large Intestine and Stomach Meridians and therefore takes on Metal characteristics as well. The downward hand maps out the angle and direction to affect with a this point with a strike downward and to the side, using Yin fire in the palm and palm-edge to intensify the strike.

ST-9 relates to the heart when accessed downward … Using the last three fingers (all of which a re Fire, Pericardium, Triple Warmer, Heart), we can see the energetic, angle of attack and weapon in posture. Pulling the opponent into the attack with the rear wing hand will take the opponent off balance as the rapid twist of the hips creates torque that has more strength than straight on pulling. This will also pull the one side out of play while simultaneously forwarding the attack.

An attack or penetrative strike to the “Man Welcome’s point (ST-9) as reflected within the Bronze Man Statue of the Bubishi is but one of the available strikes which this technique affords.

In addition an attack to GB-14 (Yangbai - Yang White) in the depression of the superciliary ridge will have devastating effects. This point is the intersection of the Stomach and Yang linking channels. A strike here can result on knockout or even death.

An aspect of the stance is within its Ground-Reaction-Force and Body-Energy-Meridian- Alignment. The stance is centred as the person twists to take up the position. One is also “grounded” by using the opponents body. What you have to remember is that we are talking about combat and not some outward exhibition designed to impress 10 year old Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle fans!.

This technique is high in the White Crane “Body-Change” and “Change-Body” Principles with the defender taking a step to the side thus taking the practitioner off-line from the opponents incoming force, limiting the reaction time of the opponent and allowing the practitioner to deliver a life-protection response in a devastating manner. The twisted stance is to be done as that strike is deployed on target feeding increased Yin energy into the selected target.

Twisted leg stances such as this not only consolidate energy transfer but may also be used to trap the opponents leg. When trapping the leg many points may be activated weakening the other corresponding points in the body. One such response would involve the Bladder and Stomach meridians on the lower body attacked to set up a palm strike to CV-12 (Zongwan - Middle Cavity) or CV-14 (Juque - Great Palace). According to the 5 Element theory of traditional Chinese medicine, the Earth controls the Water which in turn controls the Fire. CV-14 is not only a Yin Fire point but also the alarm point of the Heart. The hands held in posture at Chest level indicates the angle, direction and dermantone of the body that is targeted. This is a very serious attach at minimum able to cause arrhythmia of the heart resulting in a knockout or possible death.

This is but a few applications of this so called “posture” whose practicality lies not within its “performance” but its actual application.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 01:11 AM
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Honestly, I know Flying Crane Posture as something completely different.
That just looks like a really poor twist stance.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted By: Mei Hua
Honestly, I know Flying Crane Posture as something completely different.

stances and posture can differ a lot between different styles and even between different schools...

a quick google found a couple more "flying crane" postures that are different from the one on Tsuruken's site, I bet there are way more to be found...

Originally Posted By: Mei Hua
That just looks like a really poor twist stance.

well..
he said it was a "Feihe Jugong (Flying Crane Crossed-Leg Stance)"
and

"I openly and honestly concede that there are probably a few areas I could improve in. "

"There are some physical issues and problems ( a lower bad back which causes me grief from time to time to name but one) that forces me to compensate for but it is a work in progress .... again nobody's perfect and I'll be the first to admit it"

he showed his, so why not show yours for comparison?

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Attached Images
File Type: jpg kit_crane.jpg (16.9 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg crane_chi.jpg (20.5 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg Aphoto-flyingcrane.jpg (18.7 KB, 12 views)
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Last edited by chief108; January 13th, 2006 at 05:20 AM. Reason: added more examples
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Old January 13th, 2006, 07:12 AM
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i have never thought of those crosed leg stances as anything but dynamic

always seen them as transition stances

good for trampling your opponents legs and so on

i can see why it would be good qigong though
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Old January 13th, 2006, 07:19 AM
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Excellent for Qigong. I had always thaught that except for strength training for your legs, the most applicable use for those excersises is to teach the 'stealing step'.

I have heard white crane people mention it. Obviously in application it's alot shorts and not so low. Maybe Somone can elaborate who knows a bit more about it than I.

And my 'flying crane' was always similar to the one in Hung Gar's Fu Hok, similar to picture #1 that chief posted
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Old January 13th, 2006, 09:11 AM
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Interesting thread this, look forward to everyones view.

From my Okinawan Shorin Ryu perspective, kosa dachi (cross stance) I use for some fairly simple things -

a transitionary position when moving to the side, usually when holding opponent

a method of dropping my weight straight down, whilst keeping my feet under me, usually when holding someone

a method of body change, allowing deflections to happen on the spot rather than stepping off line, or indeed with a little shuffle

a method of stomping down onto an opponents legs, usually when holding them

hope that is similair to how some of you Kung Fu guys use this posture
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Old January 13th, 2006, 09:59 AM
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Originally Posted By: chief108

"There are some physical issues and problems ( a lower bad back which causes me grief from time to time to name but one) that forces me to compensate for but it is a work in progress .... again nobody's perfect and I'll be the first to admit it"

he showed his, so why not show yours for comparison?

Chief108

Don't have any pictures, but it resembles your first picture except the hands are in a chin nau position (Crane Wing block, hands would have the palms facing out with fingers slightly spread and angled downward) and the foot of the upward leg would be protecting the stationary knee.
As for a twist stance, I've seen and practiced it through numerous styles/systems and it really doesn't vary to a high degree, one foot turned outward and the knee of the other leg bent and behind the lead foot's ankle(Or as close as depending on the practitioner's ability and the requirement for the stance.)

I can understand having problems that effect how you do a stance, I had a knee that was pretty much destroyed and took numerous surgeries to restore, was told I would never do any MA's again, but I kept at it and it improved. I did this partly from doing stancework, but to get the benefits you should be in proper alignment and position for the stance, you may not go very low with it but you should do it properly. I also have brothers who have had injuries worse than mine and most likely worse than his and they can still do a proper stance, they again just don't go very low with it untill they can.
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Old January 13th, 2006, 08:19 PM
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Thanks for the replies (yes even you Mei Hua!) As stated I'm not perfect and am always willing to seek to better myself and my understanding of the arts ... is this not what the martial arts are all about? I don't think I'm anything all that special in the world of the martial arts and don't place myself in a "special" position, just a seeker and researcher.

The stance is the Feihe Jugong/Zhijing - “Flying Crane Salute/Bow” as used within the White Crane Research Institute. The stance is known as He Pan Bu “Crossed-Leg Crane Stance.Fundamental Stances (基本步法, Ji Ben Bu Fa). Stances are the ways of moving designed for different fighting strategies and techniques. You must learn stances and stepping methods before you can start learning any sequences, drills and forms. Fundamental stances are the foundation in every style of Chinese martial arts.

We use bowing (Feihe Jugong/Zhijing) as a means of mutual respect and as a practical means of life-protection.

Our bowing pays homage to the Feihequan or Flying Crane aspect of our explorations.

In addition the bowing we do has a practical application in terms of a Body-Change technique and counter strike and it is this aspect that we place emphasis on in our explorations. This involves moving off-line from the opponents attack (Body-Change) via a twisting stance (He Pan Bu) and then counter striking with a downward Wing Strike (Dan Pu) using the Crane Wing (He Yi) hand form to strike either the Yangbai (GB 14 - “Yang White”), Bai-Hui (GV 20 – “Hundred Meetings) or the Jiaosun (TH 20 – “Angle of Regeneration”) point.

By the way, I've just been asled to Moderate the Bai He section of the Southern Shaolin Global Kung Fu Discussion Forum if anyone's interested:

http://www.hfy108.com/forums/index.php

What of the applications described? I"d be interested in your views guys. I am here to share and learn!!!
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Old January 14th, 2006, 04:44 PM
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this is one of the pics I found on a google image search
http://www.dragonslist.com/discussio...1&d=1137276347
congrates on the mod position at that other forum,Tsuruken may be i will check it out

Last edited by bushi_tony; January 14th, 2006 at 05:19 PM. Reason: couldnt get the thumb nail to show
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Old January 14th, 2006, 08:10 PM
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Bushui Tony,

I tried to follow that link but it does not work. It came up saying:

Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

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Old January 15th, 2006, 12:22 AM
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I dont know whats up with it the thumb nail it posted fine on the reply board but doesnt show up on the thread im probably not doing something quite right I will figure it out or get an administrator to help
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Old January 15th, 2006, 08:56 PM
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Tony,

Can you provide another link for it?

Lets keep this discussion rolling along!
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Old February 23rd, 2006, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted By: Mei Hua
Honestly, I know Flying Crane Posture as something completely different.
That just looks like a really poor twist stance.

Buahahah this is DRAGON PALM.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 09:19 PM
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Intelligent response!
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Old February 25th, 2006, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted By: Tengri
Buahahah this is DRAGON PALM.

Where do you get your information/knowledge from Tengri?
My master is a Dragon stylist, practices Northern and Southern Dragon, and that most definitely is not Dragon Palm. The Senior Master of my system is a Crane stylist, and would not refer to that as Dragon Palm either.
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