Shaolin Temple Big Business?

What does everyone think about the fact that Shaolin Temple has become a big business,they use to make there money farming, now it's all about tourism, they made 2 1/2 million US dollars last year alone charging admission, the head abbot is now called the CEO of Shaolin and the monks carry cell phones to conduct money making ventures from everything like a TV show akin to american idol only with martial arts, to movie deals, Shaolin T-shirts, etc and they are busy trying to trademark and copyright the Shaolin brands of goods and equiptment, just seems kinda strange to me, however it is a new world out there What do you think? Jade Girl

I think it's an F'ng disgrace, all the past monks/abbots have to be spinning in their graves.
The current abbot is a communist government puppet, and the majority of the monks doing as you described aren't even monks, let alone Shaolin trained.

Though there are still the old school traditional monks, just smaller in number and they don't show themselves very much to outsiders.

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

Business is business... just evolved through the years... they have a product, there's a demand for it, let your imagination do the rest.

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

“	I think it's an F'ng disgrace, all the past monks/abbots have to be spinning in their graves.	”

I agree 100%. I think communism has ruined the Chinese martial arts all together. No longer is their allowed for any distinction between the varied arts of China. It all falls under the heading of "National Arts" now and the Shaolin temple was not exempt from this. As a Shaolin practicioner it's embarrassing to see what the temple has become.

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I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

I dont think its a big deal. Modern wushu is the new thing and I dont see why everyone always gets upset about it. If the temple can make money on visitors then so be it. We all have to make a living somehow.

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

Bingo...

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

“	Originally Posted By: nkyshaolin I agree 100%. I think communism has ruined the Chinese martial arts all together.	”

No arguement there

“	Originally Posted By: nkyshaolin No longer is their allowed for any distinction between the varied arts of China.	”

Of course there is. The trick is most CMA players I met in China & from China all refer to MA as Wushu, because that's what it is -- Martial Art. There's no distinction for that. Now once I asked what they played, then I got style or system names.

“	Originally Posted By: nkyshaolin It all falls under the heading of "National Arts" now and the Shaolin temple was not exempt from this.	”

Actually that's Taiwan & Kuoshu. Shaolin has it's own place in the PRC tree & has it's own tournies & compulsary forms now that are separate from chang quan, xing quan, nan quan, neijia quan, etc...

“	Originally Posted By: nkyshaolin As a Shaolin practicioner it's embarrassing to see what the temple has become.	”

Why? It's like saying you're embarassed to see what farmers have become now since they're not out in the fields using mules & single blade plows if you're from a rural community.

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

I can understand the opinions from both sides here.

Basically, Shaolin is what people make of it. If there wasn't a desire to see Shaolin in a certain way, there would be no effort to make it look that way. The thing is, every visitor has a different image of Shaolin. The American may think Shaolin monks must look & act like Master Po from "Kung Fu." The Hong Kong native wants to see a Shaolin like in the Shaw Brothers movies. The Japanese tourist is looking for the origin of Zen & may expect to see something similar to what is done in his country.

Plus there are the changes wrought by numerous complaints & observations.

"The sanitation is horrible." -- Result in the building of tourist hotels with running water, later with hot water.
"The road out here is just dirt!" Result in the building of a superhighway between Dengfeng & Shaolin.
"Where are the monks?" Result in monks wearing robes all the time.
"I only want to learn real Shaolin from the real monks." Result in the PRC permitting teaching of kung fu, but only their approved curriculum of course.
"It's hard to find basic necessities here." Result in the buildup of the village outside Shaolin into a tourist strip of sorts.
"I'm totally disillusioned because of the big tourist strip outside Shaolin." Result in the entire village, shops & schools being demolished by the PRC & either relocated to Dengfeng or just left homeless.

Basically, whatever the majority of tourists wanted, they got, and they got it in spades. Money talks, and everyone wants a piece of it. Thing is, if the tourist dollars are taken away, Shaolin Temple might be taken away too.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

In the beginning there wasn't something how it "should look like", it was something. It was a place where monks lived and learned, and practiced, Buddhism, medicine, and some martial arts. If there still would be a place where real monks could learn real Buddhism and real medicine and original qigong, and for whatever reason someone could learn real original Shaolin martial arts, everything would be fine. It wouldn't matter if there is something else outside the temple, or if that teaching would happen in a separate building a little off. But selling off sports students as "monks", letting them teach whatever they know and think would be fun to tourists as "real Shaolin", and not having the real thing around anymore, does. They even send those "monks" whose names were just put into a book somewhere to other countries, opening other "Shaolin temples", again selling whatever they could and did learn, as "real Shaolin". They have no problem with selling you backyard made stuff as "real Adidas", so they have no shame selling you whatever backyard stuff they have as "real Shaolin". At least a part of it would deserve better.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

Shaolin does deserve better, I agree. I'm not pleased with how things have developed. But things are as they are.

So the "real Shaolin" maybe doesn't exist anymore. Not physically. Where else is it possible for Shaolin to exist, then?

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl Shaolin does deserve better, I agree. I'm not pleased with how things have developed. But things are as they are. So the "real Shaolin" maybe doesn't exist anymore. Not physically. Where else is it possible for Shaolin to exist, then?	”

In the hearts and minds of Shaolin Practioneers, Jade Girl

“	Why? It's like saying you're embarassed to see what farmers have become now since they're not out in the fields using mules & single blade plows if you're from a rural community.	”

I'm embarrassed because it is a shell of it's former self. It's a facade. A Nike swoosh on a sacred scroll to make a buck. I understand it is good for them to make a buck, but a what cost? They have taken something that (whether you agree or not) is sacred to most martial artist and turned it into a marketing gimmick. And it's not about advancement as you used in your farmer anology (a bad one i might add) it's more about selling your soul for profit and it's embarrassing. I mean when you tell someone you study Shaolin Kung fu and they say," oh yeah they opened for Lynard Skynard the other day" it kind of underminds your system...

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I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

“	I mean when you tell someone you study Shaolin Kung fu and they say," oh yeah they opened for Lynard Skynard the other day" it kind of underminds your system...	”

LOL yeah, I can see where people would get the wrong idea about martial arts from that. Did you ever see the episode of Dog the Bounty Hunter where he & his boys go to a Shaolin show? And he's telling them, "These are warriors, this is the mindset you have to have." It was ... strange.

OTOH, people who only have passing familiarity with Shaolin who see the monk shows are pretty impressed with it and a small percentage will sign up at a kung fu school. Especially if it has "shaolin" in the name but often any kung fu will do. It's a start and is often a very positive move for them. So there is a positive aspect to the shows.

BTW I would kill to see Lynyrd Skynyrd and the Shaolin monks do a show together. That would be the most awesome rendition of Freebird ever.

(redneck roots showing through...)

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: nkyshaolin I'm embarrassed because it is a shell of it's former self. It's a facade. A Nike swoosh on a sacred scroll to make a buck. I understand it is good for them to make a buck, but a what cost? They have taken something that (whether you agree or not) is sacred to most martial artist and turned it into a marketing gimmick. And it's not about advancement as you used in your farmer anology (a bad one i might add) it's more about selling your soul for profit and it's embarrassing. I mean when you tell someone you study Shaolin Kung fu and they say," oh yeah they opened for Lynard Skynard the other day" it kind of underminds your system...	”

Shaolin died at the end of the Qing dynasty & was finished off in 1928 during the Civil War leading up to WWII & was buried during the Cultural Revolution. Anything put out as the "shaolin temple" today is a ghost of what used to be. It's an imitation at best, so take it for what it is... a show, a put on, a goose for those who just can't go without their golden egg... whatever...

Go study MA... be happy with what you've got & keep moving. It's just a show & PT Barnum would be jealous of them.

And it is about advancement... have you been to Dengfeng & Shaolin? I have. It's all about advancement there...

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

youve hit it on the head . l remember when the cultural revolution hit. the government made sure no more real monks . no more traditional arts , book burning ect. they are comunist they dont believe in any kind of religeon . the really good teachers left in fear fled to h.k. and tai wan or had to change name and hide . thats why when the government decided to market arts they advertised all over china that no longer would teachers get persicuted then gave them titles as the real oldtimers were long gone. why because the really good ones for the most part left before they were arrested or put on farms. sui lum is just another way of getting a buck teaching a washed out version of old arts. the last real monks left years ago the last real abbot died years ago . l have a old movie of the last abbot made just before he died . he did nothing like they teach to-day . it would cost less money to find a real teacher in h.k. or tai-wan than spend a **** load to learn something the government sells to tourists . having done business in china , it doesnt mean what you pay the most for is the best.