Animal Techniques, Are They A Waste?

Depends on who's standing on the other side.

__________________
It's all about the nitty gritty.......

“	Originally Posted By: jawsman Depends on who's standing on the other side.	”

Exactly ... doing a cooperative demo doesn't equal fighting effectiveness. A demo can certainly illustrate a technique and its desired effects.

I learned something really neat when helping out in class the other day ... I was demonstrating one option in a move to a student -- "This is a strike but depending on circumstances it can just be a push that unbalances your opponent" -- I gave him a little shove to illustrate. Oops ... he was in "cooperative mode" from being demonstrated on and was already back on his heels and he stumbled back all the way across the floor. All I could think was "Ahh, my first time ever showing an application and I killed a student!" But he didn't fall down (wasn't a very hard push at all) and we went on with the lesson. Albeit without me shoving folks around.

Later on I thought, "Hmm, I wonder if there is a way to make money from demonstrating on cooperative people and calling it some kind of amazing name ... I'm sure nobody else has thought of this!"

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: Mei Hua Do animal techniques still serve a purpose in today's environment, did they ever? Are there not more useful skills available than those based upon the Animal Systems?	”

it serves a purpose, both in the past and today.
building internal and external chi is practical.
an example would be tiger, developing the physical body thru it's hard style.

sure, u can make an argument for efficiency, but ur question addresses two different points.

Of course there are different points, they were separate questions

“	Originally Posted By: Mei Hua Of course there are different points, they were separate questions	”

hehe, i wanted to reply more, but i have a broken hand.
one-hand cripple types with ease is not a form i've learned yet... LOL

It's all good, hope the hand heals up quick

Sorry, I don't think that a demo video ( ie: compliant partner ) can be used to justify any kind of realistic combat skills.

I think the question should be, do you feel that fighting like that guy in that video clip is going to stop this man ?

watch?v=t9NAAjR8lH0

( just add the usual bit on the beginning ) . I don't mean could your Sifu or his Sigung's Sigung take this guy out. I mean using traditional animal forms do you honestly think you would put up a decent defense against this sort of thing ?

But if you ask me yes or no to

“	Do animal techniques still serve a purpose in today's environment, did they ever?	”

I would say yes and yes. I think what that purpose is is what causes all the fuss.

I think as long as someone is truly honest with themselves, then whatever MA they decide to do, I would support them. I have seen Shaolin Kung Fu and other traditional animal-based systems make people very happy and even transform their lives, so there is at least one good reason for it.

Happy Training !

p.s. I search all the time for good Kung Fu sparring clips but I still haven't seen anything decent that is in a pure animal style. I would like to :P On the other hand, I can link to a ton of great examples of skilled combat application when it comes to people who do not stick to one specific style come hell or high water.

I feel animal styles for the most part where given their names after they were developed. Just like certain styles have single techniques named after animals. So the fact that it is named after an animal is irrelevant as to it's quality.

I agree. In TJQ Grasp the sparrow's tail was most likely made before comming up with the name. Much like a song for example.

“	Originally Posted By: Jeff C. Animal techniques only become a waste when and if they're not trained or practiced properly. Many animal techniques also call for the hands to be properly conditioned. These two go hand and hand together along with understanding what the technique is trying to accomplish. Case and point would be trying to use a fu jow (tiger claw) ripping or crushing technique. Without the hands being properly trained and conditioned, and also without actually attempting the actual application. It is just a waste pretty much. jeff	”

Good post and I agree completely. Animal techniques are only useless if you are not trained properly. That includes knowing when, where, and how to properly throw the technique. It does not make sense to throw a tiger claw strike to someone's foot or do a crane beak to someone's shin. Each animal strike has a specific target on the human body it is meant for. Tiger claw for the face. Snake hand strike for eyes, throat, groin, etc..... Crane beak is for the temple, eyes, throat, etc.... And also to use these techniques correctly they should be incorporated into the sparring part of your m.a. class.

__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

I don't know very much about animal techniques, though I have learned a few techniques from white crane. In my experience, some of the strikes require conditioning to be effective. But the blocking techniques ( hooking, etc) that I learned are very quick and effective.

“	Originally Posted By: Rockyn I don't know very much about animal techniques, though I have learned a few techniques from white crane. In my experience, some of the strikes require conditioning to be effective. But the blocking techniques ( hooking, etc) that I learned are very quick and effective.	”

Hense my comment stating that they need to be trained properly.

__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

[quote=Jade_Dragon_03;317646]It does not make sense to throw a tiger claw strike to someone's foot or do a crane beak to someone's shin. quote]

I disagree with this part, only because I like to give my nephew a swift crane beak on his shin when we spar. He gets pissed. Its pretty funny.

“	I disagree with this part, only because I like to give my nephew a swift crane beak on his shin when we spar. He gets pissed. Its pretty funny.	”

I like giving my little brother a noogie to the head and a wedgie every once in a while. Unfortunately that doesn't speak anything towards the efficacy of those techniques in a self defense/combat scenario.

__________________
Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

It's especially of importance to have a health insurance if you are striking with the back of the hand with a cranes beak because "sifu told it's right". About on par with the "bagua masters" who strike with the palm twisted inwards and the fingers pointing towards themselves because that occurs in a static exercise.

F*** I am replying AGAIN.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.