Animal Techniques, Are They A Waste?

Do animal techniques still serve a purpose in today's environment, did they ever?

Are there not more useful skills available than those based upon the Animal Systems?

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

they have their purpose

but they're not special in any way and should be practised, tested, trained and perfected just like any other techniques...


Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

Two trains of thought on this, but IMO they come together:

One, as Cam has said a few times, there's only so many techniques the human body can do. If you want to call it a choke, an armlock, a punch, a block; or if you want to call it Tiger Spits Up A Bone, Dragon Gets Funky, whatever, the principles involved in moves & sequences are similar.

Two, animal movements were most likely observed by fighters trying to gain an edge in an extremely competitive environment. The Wang Lang legend is an illustration of this type of observation. What allowed an animal to survive in its environment? How did a mantis get through the day? How did a tiger eat? What movements or strategy enabled the animal to survive encounters (or get prey)? What attitude did the animal seem to display?

Animal references are also used to remember certain moves; to make the poems used to describe forms more interesting; to communicate the intent of a move quickly and with little change from generation to generation.

For example, I could write hundreds of words or speak at length about the opening moves of one of our mantis forms. Or I could just use the opening line from the form's poem: "Praying Mantis entraps Cicada posing bravely in his might." The line communicates the expected attitude and intent. Granted, there are no answers about or exact descriptions of the move in that line -- but that is not its main purpose.

So IMO, the animal element in martial arts serves an important teaching purpose and is not useless at all.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

I suppose it is a more memorable way of remember techniques. For example, in Judo techniques are occasionally called things like this. One is known as Ganseki otoshi, which stands for Big Rock Drop. It is rare that anyone even knows what this technique is, let alone be able to perform it. I have attempted it once whilst fighting and it is not an easy technique, nor does it feel nice for your opponent to have done on them.

I think that animal forms are important for the reasons given.

They can be direct gateways to the more primitive areas of our psyche. My personal interest in MA has been to break down barriers between conscious and unconscious.
Relaxation with alertness, intent, and focus are the keys. The movements are a bridge, and are practical applications. I found that even if the process is not spelled out, it is possible to find it on one's own, according to inclination, if one turns inward. My reason for this inward turning was to establish as near as total accountability of actions, thoughts and feelings.

I had discuvered this long before reading the Lama Pai link below.
http://www.tibetankungfu.com/the_ape_&_crane_divisions_of_the_lion's_roar!_mart ial_art.htm

Scroll down to "Cita (Mind) in the Ape & Crane Totem Animal Divisions." I was more interested in the neurobiology and and emotional content. Haven't looked at this for quite a while. nice opportunity.

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"....if the mind stops with the sword with which a man is going to strike you, there will be an interval, and your own action will be lost." (Takuan Soho)
"I'm so proud, I've got tears flying out off my butt" (chief108)

<They can be direct gateways to the more primitive areas of our psyche.>

I knew I came from monkeys and apes!
Monkey just feels right. My body likes it. I fall back on it all the time.
Sometimes my Sifu tells me to use other stuff during a fight. So I pull out a little Long Fist, Wing Chun or Drunken and I look like a big dork. So back to the monkey for me. When I stand in "Monkey hides from sun" I feel protected and ready to launch anything.
Without the animals, I"d probably survive, but God bless the beasts!

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"I say, if you want to find out where the road goes, get in the fast lane and hit the gas." Calvin and Hobbes

As long as you're in touch with the animal in/that is you, you'll do more than survive!

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"....if the mind stops with the sword with which a man is going to strike you, there will be an interval, and your own action will be lost." (Takuan Soho)
"I'm so proud, I've got tears flying out off my butt" (chief108)

There exists only techniques that are based on universal principles. Some are effective, some are not. The effective ones need to be learned, the ineffective ones can be discarded. It doesn't matter what you call them... you can name them after animals, cars, trees or even Disney movies.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

mickey mouse fist (TM Disney)

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Animal techniques only become a waste when and if they're not trained or practiced properly. Many animal techniques also call for the hands to be properly conditioned. These two go hand and hand together along with understanding what the technique is trying to accomplish. Case and point would be trying to use a fu jow (tiger claw) ripping or crushing technique. Without the hands being properly trained and conditioned, and also without actually attempting the actual application. It is just a waste pretty much.


jeff

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History will be kind to me for I intend to write it ~ Sir Winston Churchill

Animal techniques are only useless if they are divorced from function and are more concerned with mimicry.

Poking the eyes, the ripping and tearing of muscle, joint locking, etc all sound like viable tactics to me.

One of the main problems is that there are distinct cultural links that come with CMA's usage of animal representation (most of which are very old), and these cultural links are dwindling at alarming rates, both here and in China. This is a common problem in CMA today- the cultural links to old traditional paradigms that explain the Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How are being lost. Specifically for us in the West, this allows for an incomplete transition into a truly knowledgeable Western adaptation/evolution of CMA skills, because the cultural reference has not been maintained. This creates the need for, and the subsequent waste of energy on, needless reverse engineering of basic systemic concepts.

Peace

“	Originally Posted By: illusionfist Animal techniques are only useless if they are divorced from function and are more concerned with mimicry. Poking the eyes, the ripping and tearing of muscle, joint locking, etc all sound like viable tactics to me. One of the main problems is that there are distinct cultural links that come with CMA's usage of animal representation (most of which are very old), and these cultural links are dwindling at alarming rates, both here and in China. This is a common problem in CMA today- the cultural links to old traditional paradigms that explain the Who, What, Where, When, Why, and How are being lost. Specifically for us in the West, this allows for an incomplete transition into a truly knowledgeable Western adaptation/evolution of CMA skills, because the cultural reference has not been maintained. This creates the need for, and the subsequent waste of energy on, needless reverse engineering of basic systemic concepts. Peace	”

Couldn't agree more, great post!

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Animal techniques useless??? - you mean like this:

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What is the sound of one hand clawing? -- chanh buddhist proverb

Shoot, link doesn't work

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

ooops - one leading w was missing there (-- fixored)

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What is the sound of one hand clawing? -- chanh buddhist proverb