Wanted: Info on Shaolin Do Karate

“	Originally Posted By: nkyshaolin Yet you're on this thread calling the system and all it's schools McDojo's....way to hold back.	”

The system and the schools have all the characteristics of McDojo's. What I said was that I would reserve judgement. The book is still open in my mind, but the information available indicates it is unlikely Shaolin Do will turn out to be anything other than a McDojo. Not unlike this one, I visited several TKD schools in the area and was able to pretty much tell within the first 5minutes of talking with someone how the rest of the encounter would play out. And sure enough, I was correct. For these places, the book is closed. However, I went there to see for myself. Its like someone telling me that a movie is bad...I don't believe it until I see it, but I can still relate all the poor reviews to others.

“	JD stated that he was 13 or 14 years old...i doubt very seriously he had the martial arts knowledge or mental capacities at that age to make a logical and knowledgable assumption about a system as a whole at that time and now come on this website and make claims about it.	”

So what age can we "accept" their knowledge and judgment? I really care little for natural age, not when I see 30 or 40 year olds refuse to think for themselves. Some of the younger individuals I have taught have actually acted more maturely than the older ones. As for JD specifically...I think I will keep my mouth shut. However, once again, this is a very poor argument to discredit JD's claims...and really seems more like an act of desperation.

“	I'm not some mindless idiot who didn't do any research before joining that school. I went to a number of schools (Akidio, Karate, TKD, Judo) in our area and checked them all out first before joining the SD school in my area. The SD school i joined wasn't flashy, didn't have the huge facilities and training aids and provided exactly what i was looking for at the time, over all the other schools. I stayed there by choice not because of some ridiculous Jim Jones cult like devotion to the sytem. The training was physically challenging, applicable and enlightening. That's why i stayed.	”

This sounds oddly familiar. But I can't argue with your experience. Like you said, it provided you with what you were looking for at the time.



I will agree with you here. One thing that SD has issues with is knowledge retention and mastery. Some of the student i've studied with truly master what they learn but a majority get that half assed look in their eye at about 2nd degree black. That was another reason why i left. The farther i went up in the system the harder it was to hold on to the knowledge given. Also the ground and trapping ranges lacked as i stated in prior post.

“	I am defending SD because of the time i spent there and the experience i had there with the school i studied in. I find it irresponsible for people to come on to these sites with limited to secondhand knowledge and drop loads of crap they know little to nothing about. I expect this from a bullshido or other websites but i expect more from the members of this website.	”

I can respect the fact that you are sticking up for an art that you dedicated a good portion of your life studying. But once again, this is a cheesy debate method insulting everyone in this thread for not believing what you do. People who are posting secondhand knowledge are saying it, so it is up to the reader to determine the validity of what they are saying and whether they should do their own research. No one here is making up intentional lies...no one is saying that "Shaolin Do teaches people to become murder sociopaths who molest children in the lockeroom, I DUN SEEN IT!". Instead they are saying that Shaolin Do's methods, origins, and claims are severely questionable at best.

If you can not debate these topics without resorting to cheap tactics like insulting everyone else who has posted on this thread, then your arguments (in my opinion) carry little weight themselves. Which make me wonder about this Shaolin Do thing even more. I'll save the 10cent psychology assessment for another time.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

“	Originally Posted By: Jade_Dragon_03 ::: The Shaolin-Do Association Homepage check out this ridiculous curriculum for SD	”

“	Blue Belt to Green Belt -- Short Kata 16-22 -- Sparring Techniques 11-15 -- Hand to Hand Techniques -- Numchaku Techniques 1-12 Tai Pang Sin Kune: Big Bird Spreads its Wings Se Pa Pang 4-8 Bo	”

Gotta watch out for that one!!!

“	This event happened back in mid to late 80's. GM Sin was in China or something and his brother Hwang The' was running the tournament and had orchastrated the whole thing.	”

And Hwang The' was kicked out of the system in the late 80's for his questionable practices. so why are you blaming M. Sin for this? And I don't see a website for your school listed anywhere? I'm sure if we really wanted to go there an pick it apart it would no problem. Does your school even list it's cirriculum...oh i wouldn't know you don't list your school.

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I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

“	Originally Posted By: WraithAlcon So what age can we "accept" their knowledge and judgment? I really care little for natural age, not when I see 30 or 40 year olds refuse to think for themselves. Some of the younger individuals I have taught have actually acted more maturely than the older ones. As for JD specifically...I think I will keep my mouth shut. However, once again, this is a very poor argument to discredit JD's claims...and really seems more like an act of desperation.	”

Wraith....why is it that we can not get along? I know your opinion on TCMA techniques and how you think most of them aren't effective in real street fighting situations. Thats your opinion and I can respect that BUT I'm basing my statements on what has worked for me based on my training and experience in an actual street fights (which is maybe 3 or 4 fights in my whole life). The techniques that I have used worked for me. Some of the techniques I used I had to set my opponent up for and others I just got lucky and saw the opening to apply the tech. or strike. I think that if we both stopped bickering back and forth then we both could enjoy the conversations more. I'm just as guilty for bickering and to be honest it gets pretty old and boring when you (we) argue everyday, don't you agree? Sometimes it fun though.....LOL.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

“	But once again, this is a cheesy debate method insulting everyone in this thread for not believing what you do. People who are posting secondhand knowledge are saying it, so it is up to the reader to determine the validity of what they are saying and whether they should do their own research. No one here is making up intentional lies...no one is saying that "Shaolin Do teaches people to become murder sociopaths who molest children in the lockeroom, I DUN SEEN IT!". Instead they are saying that Shaolin Do's methods, origins, and claims are severely questionable at best. If you can not debate these topics without resorting to cheap tactics like insulting everyone else who has posted on this thread, then your arguments (in my opinion) carry little weight themselves. Which make me wonder about this Shaolin Do thing even more. I'll save the 10cent psychology assessment for another time.	”

Wait a minute at no time did i ever insult anyone on this website. I merely stating that you are making assumption about something you know a little about and posting on here as gospel. I don't care if anyone agrees with me i'm just asking you to have some valid information before you bash a system. If anything you all are attacking and insulting me for defending the system. i've been told that this is cult and have seen pictures of cousin it and big bird posted on this thread. Talk about cheesy debates. What you don't like when someone logically defends something he has intimate knowledge about so you resort to ridiculous nonsense...please.

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I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

nkyshaolin....My schools web site is down for reconstruction/updating due to some school changes but I have been told that it will be up and running on DEC. 16, 2007. This is the school where I work out at but it is not the school where I earned my black sash. The school where I earned my black sash is no longer open because my sifu moved back to his home state due to his full time job (working on computers). He moved from Lexington, Ky back to Boston, Mass.. My teachers name in John Dufresne. He is well know and respected in M.A. community.
the web site for the school I work out at is: 4smma.com

That stands for: Four Seasons Mixed Martial Arts. If it's not up by Dec. 16 keep trying it.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

JD:

Your lack of reading comprehension is why we can't get along. You keep assuming I hate TCMA despite how many times Mei and I state just the opposite. If anything, I hate Modern Chinese Martial Arts that pretends to be TCMA.

nkyshaolin:

Go reread your former post and see where you insulted every poster in this thread. Not all insults are "U R STOOPID". Some are more subtle, intended or not. And please don't martyr yourself. That is the last step before "leaving the thread", but still continuing to check it to see if we're talking about you.

__________________
"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

Would it be safe to say the nky could have trained at an SD school that had decent practitioners within it's ranks (at least to a certain extent) regardless of the methods practiced the "governing body"?

The only problem arises when you refer to the organization as a whole then the whole needs to be considered and not just a piece.

I think most people would agree that as a whole Wing Chun is a good style as well as a great number of other arts. There have been people in the past that weren't of good character in Wing Chun but as a whole Wing Chun is a good art... (I chose Wing Chun only because that's what you're studying now. It could be any martial art so to speak)

There may be good artists within the ranks of Shaolin-Do but as a style does it hold up?

JD, I'm not trying to call you out or anything but....

It appears that alot of the forms you listed do not necessarily appear traditional. The forms list looks mostly like modern cma and with a wushu slant. It may just be the mandarin terms you are using.... correct me if I'm wrong.

Just using mandrin terms, they are in NO shape form or fashion wu shu. The only wu shu form is the long fist form. The other are in no way wu shu, I don't really like wu shu. To much acrabatical (sp?) stuff for me.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

Gung Li Chuan being wu shu? Thats a new one on me.

Why do you say that these forms have a wu shu slant? Because I used the mandrin term Chuan? Just curious.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

yeah, it may just be the mandarin. I hopped on youtube and watched a clip of gung li chuan... definitely northern longfist, but you're right, I wouldn't call it wushu. My bad.

The snake form is called Golden Bamboo Viper. It is from Ng Family Style Kung Fu (thats Grandmaster John Wing Loc Ng). There is another snake form I know called Gloden Bamboo Twin Vipor also from Ng Family Style Kung Fu.

__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

“	Go reread your former post and see where you insulted every poster in this thread. Not all insults are "U R STOOPID". Some are more subtle, intended or not. And please don't martyr yourself. That is the last step before "leaving the thread", but still continuing to check it to see if we're talking about you.	”

If you were offended by me asking this members on this post to be responsible in their criticism then you have some pretty soft skin. No where in this have i called out anyone's elses martial arts or called anyone names. I 'm just merely pointing out that when you call someone a liar and a thief you need to back that up with pretty credible information.

And I'll be happy to stay on this post for however long it runs and watch all the chewbaca takes and hairy man garbage. but nice debate technique. Oftentimes when people are losing an argument or can't explain why they seem to be so inconsistent on certain issues, they start questioning the motives of their opponents, like telling them they're trying martyr themselves.....

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I'm very important. I have many leather-bound books and my apartment smells of rich mahogany.

Are you guys seriously arguing over whose about to lose an argument!!!!!!!!

Seriously!