Yes I still would like a copy of the Tape!!
There are several tapes of this Day- I not only remember many recorders on Tri-stands at the tourniment but after this event many have claimed to have seen. Unfortunatly, I have yet to be able to see it. Maybe someday before I die I could see a copy- As it is I can only look back at that day with non-belief- alittle sad and remorse. I should maybe not have acted so quickly- Of course I was only in my early 20 ****y young man and fighting was what I did! Im not sorry for what I did, because I did not provoke the instance- But If this happened today I would not be so quick to respond.
Hello Sifu Dufresne, How are things up north?
How did your seminar go in Nashvile TN.?
I thought you had a tape of that inccedent at the Sin The' tournament?
Anyways, I heard stories about it from you. Sounds like a wild episode. It's unfortunite that it happened.
When is the next seminar? And are you going to be teaching it?
__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage
The seminar went very well- (But where were you!!)
I dont know when I will be able to come back- I am very busy now at work- I just came back from Istanbul, Turkey and Jan 25 I go to Shenzhen China for 1 week (Chinese new year) then to Bankok to see a client- emmediatly I go to India for a show for another week- when I return I will only be in the country for 2 weeks then to Germany for another show.
Sifu, I started a new job and was unable to attend. I started at Amazon.com and hated it. To much manual labor......lol. I'm not used to that you know. But seriously, it was the hours that they wanted me to work. They wanted me to be at work at 6 a.m. and work till 4:30 in the after noon. I'm not a morning person so that job didn't last long so I'm back with State Farm Insurance and my dad. Plus Chessa didn't send me the flyer on the seminar until 2 days prior to the seminar. I didn't have any advance notice on it. I wish I could have attended.
__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage
__________________
"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell
Originally
Posted By: Unkotare
You didn't get a chance to see the 11-12 posts I removed. Don't be too harsh on Wraith.
”
A question Unk. I have seen misunderstandings based on mod deleted posts that people didn't see. I wonder, have the mods ever thought of a way to delete posts and leave a message like- posts deleted- so we mere mortals have a clue we don't have the complete picture? Just wondering.
Since Unk has informed me my response is based on incomplete info, I am going to go delete it now. Letting you all know so you don't wonder what is up like I did.
-aaradia
__________________ I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert
So ... can only mods see the deleted post marks & italicized comments? Because that was a masterful piece of work there, Unk.
__________________ "Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san
"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...
Ahh yes, a shaolin-do thread. I'm pretty sure every martial arts forum has one, but since this is the only forum I read a lot so I feel the need to weigh in (lordy, this should probably be it's own thread)...
DISCLAIMER: Everything I say from here on in is my own personal opinion. Quite a few law suits have been started from stupid crap like this, and I'd prefer to be left out of it. Just to be safe, I'm going to leave out all names.
Let me start by confessing that Sin The used to be my grandmaster. I wasn't a shaolin-do student, but he was always "Grandmaster The" at our school. I was part of the Chinese Shaolin Center, a chain of schools started by two of The's other master level students. I was never sure why this "break" happened. However these two students are pretty shifty and underhanded folks, so I'm guessing it's all their fault. Anyways, my school always had the utmost respect for these two elder masters, and Sin The, but they had a very authoritarian style of running their chain. It got to the point where my sifu had to choose between starting his own school, or letting the current school get run into the ground. He decided to go with the former option. So he teamed up with other martial artist who have been disillusioned by Sin The and company's McDojo-ish ways. And that's how my current school has come into being.
Also quick aside, when my sifu became the head instructor of the old school, he had to sign a non-competition contract. To avoid legal troubles he's refraining from teaching for a year and is now technically a student like everyone else. Even with these precautions, he's getting harrased.
I could go on and on about all the double-dealings, hidden fees and general bs I had to go through, but the bottom line is, I don't want to dwell on the negative. I had some fun, made friends, and got some half-way decent training out of the whole shebang. so let's move on and address some points brought up in this thread:
1)the japanese style uniforms and belts. The line we were always told is that Sin The's teacher (Ie Ching) fled to Indonesia to avoid legal troubles. (Given what's gone on in Sin The's life, and the general attitude of the chinese government this is a pretty believable story). When in Indonesia, great grandmaster Ie Ching encountered a lot of prejudice against the Chinese, including some local laws forbidding the practice of chinese martial arts(again, very believable. Everyone in Asia hates each other, and I believe there was even a national law against teaching chinese martial arts in Indonesia). The japanese styling were adopted basically to conceal the fact that he was teaching chinese arts....at least that's what I was always told.
I also totally agree with what was said earlier, for a martial arts school to succeed in America, you have to have some sort of belt system. It's all anyone knows or cares about. The instant I tell anyone that martial arts is my main hobby, the first question out of their mouth is, "what is your belt", sometimes they also want to know what my teachers belt. I've had some ignorant folk even laugh at me when I told them my teacher was only a second degree black belt. For me personally, all that matters is how many years have you been practicing martial arts, and can you teach me anything.
2)What is this rumor about a bunch of sd blackbelts getting their asses handed to them at a tournament? If this tape exists please please please put it on youtube! I don't doubt for a second that this actually happened. When I was a student in the The system, we were told time and time again, DO NOT SPAR OUTSIDE OF THE SCHOOL. despite that this would be a great way to train. Also there was all this crap about how "this art is too dangerous for tournament use"....except that always struck me as weird because we had all the evidence that tournaments had been going on in the past. Lastly, we were told that once we got to black belt, we were forbidden to train at other schools. Ostensibly to "preserve the purity of the art", in reality is was probably to stop people with big heads from going to other schools, getting slaughtered and then thinking it was due to their crappy training at the first school
3) This video offends me on many levels
THAT WAS MY FAVORITE FORM YOU'RE BUTCHERING YOU JACKASS! Lordy at least hold a decent bow stance! This looks like the freaking Ministry of Silly Walks.
ok, so that's all I want to say about that. Dag I think this might be the longest reply I've ever written for Dlist. There's lots of ways I could defend about the whole Shaolin-do system, and just as many ways I could tell you how it sucks as an insider. If there's anything you're dying to know, just ask away.
__________________
1. Research your own experience
2. Absorb what is useful
3. Reject what is useless
4. Add what is essentially your own
Ace, this tape that you are referring to about the tournament inncident involved my sifu (John Dufresne). I don't want to go into to much detail because I don't want to bring up the past and start things all over again BUT here is the short side of it........
My sifu and another were at Sin The's tournament at Lexington Catholic H.S. and were up in the stands watching. Team sparring was going on and they were two short on a team so they asked if anyone would like to join in to make the team complete. They hand choose my teacher and the other guy that was with him to join. When they got to the ring it had all been planned. They were jumped by about 10-15 SD students. My teacher and the guy with him beat them all pretty badly. This is what I have been told by several people as to what happened. To be fair I'll say I'm sure there are two sides to each story (although my teacher is not one to lie or make up stuff). This event happened back in the mid to late 80's I believe.
__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage
I have to ask. There is a portion of the form at the end that has, the tall man at least, having two fingers pointed up in the air and slightly waving them back and forth while he is looking down...Why? Its just before he turns around and begins making his way back across the room to bow out.
Originally
Posted By: Green_Horn
There is a portion of the form at the end that has, the tall man at least, having two fingers pointed up in the air and slightly waving them back and forth while he is looking down...Why?
”
Why Green Horn... that's the Shaolin-Don't Gang Sign of course!
Originally
Posted By: Sammygirl
So ... can only mods see the deleted post marks & italicized comments? Because that was a masterful piece of work there, Unk.
”
Thank you very much!
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Wolfgang says:
I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893
Ahhh! you want me reveal the secrets of the form! How dare you! I will be ostracized from the shaolin-do community, but I guess that's a risk I have to take. Partially, because I don't care, partially because I hate the whole "secret method" crap, but mostly because I believe in the 36th chamber of shaolin! :-)
So here quick note about forms. For a form to look good AND be and effective training tool, you have to know why you're making each movement. One of the reason this guy sucks so bad is I don't think he knows why he's making these moves...case in point, at this portion of the form he's looking down, when he should be looking at his funny hand (or more specifically, at a target past his hand)
So there are two applications for this movement.
The first has to do with tiger style in general. If you've ever watched the Discovery channel and watched how big cats hunt (or played with a kitten), you'll notice that when a cat it about to strike, they sit back on their haunches, and wait. Then they pounce, lash out and go nuts. Then they go back to crouching or stalking. Hence Tiger style is supposed to involve a lot of "hold the stance...wait...wait....pounce!". In this section of the form, he's supposed to be in a horse stance, starring at his opponent. It's then followed by a series of strikes to the groin and lower body. not sure if that really shows up.
Second is a more literal interpretation of the movement. The person is supposed to wave his hand like a cat's tail. This distracts and confuses the opponent. He then hooks his hand under their arm/hand/whatever he can get, shoots his hand and entire body up. This should leave his opponent open to the series of low strikes that follows.
Now I'm sure most people reading this are going to have snide or smart ass comments to respond to what I've said here, so let me add a few more comments:
-This is really hard form. Don't judge me or the form based on this video. That ain't fair
-I'm not going to record myself doing the form put it on youtube. I'm not going to put myself out there like that, and quite frankly, I don' think I do the form all that spectacular either. It's a really hard form.
-My biggest beef with how these guys are doing the form is their stance. Tiger style is supposed to be done in very low stances (i.e. like how a tiger stalks). Half the time, I don't even know if these guys are in a bow or horse. The second guy has his stances a little better, but you can still see him getting higher and higher in his stance. I got to blame their Sifu about this. the only reason my forms look even remotely presentable is because every other sentence out of my sifu's mouth is about stances... I can even hear him saying it in my sleep, "O.K one more time. Slower. Sink in your stances. I want to see half the speed, twice the power. Remember your stances!"
Ok. anymore questions? Please try and keep smart-ass comments to yourself, unless it really really funny (I enjoyed the shaolin gang signs one)
__________________
1. Research your own experience
2. Absorb what is useful
3. Reject what is useless
4. Add what is essentially your own
I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893
