Wanted: Info on Shaolin Do Karate

Its just highly unlikely. Now the Grandmaster part. First off I was under the impression that "Grandmaster was more of a new term and the criteria was not just that you had mastered a style but that you had trained someone else to mastery and they had at least begun training someone else to that level. Kinda like the grandparents of a family. Least thats how I always saw it I could be wrong. Please correct me if Im wrong. and sorry bought the to post was affraid of being logged off while I was posting, was distracted by TV while I was writing, and was afraid my post wouldnt be deleted.

Well, you're right for the most part. He was given the title of grandmaster at the age of 25. And it's "over 900 forms" not a mere 600.

You've actually touched on one of the things that always bugged me about the legends we were told about Sin Kwan The.

So the story goes that there was a stretch of time where he learned one new form every day before he went to school, and then would show that he mastered the form at the end of the day.

I had number of problems with this. First off, for a while I was learning one form (sometimes two a month) and it was all I could do to keep my head from exploding. I learned these knowing full well that it was going to be at least a year before I could do them really good, so I often wondered what was the point. Meanwhile, you never really got to appreciate the form and practice applications, so it wasn't really a form so much as it was a dance.

Second. I know about 20 something forms and it takes everything I've got to keep em all straight. How the hell can you remember and perform over 100? I know a couple people who have over 100 forms and they have to practice CONSTANTLY to keep them respectable.
Last, Sin Kwan The only "releases" one totally new form a year. so buy this logic, he will have taught all the material he know to the Shaolin-do masters sometime in the year 2525.


Ok, I'm done venting. about that crap

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“	And it's "over 900 forms" not a mere 600. So the story goes that there was a stretch of time where he learned one new form every day before he went to school, and then would show that he mastered the form at the end of the day.	”

I am sorry, but that is just simply NOT possible! I don't care how gifted you are! Just impossible!

Also, I would like to know their definition of the term "mastered"

-aaradia

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“	Originally Posted By: aaradia I am sorry, but that is just simply NOT possible! I don't care how gifted you are! Just impossible! Also, I would like to know their definition of the term "mastered" -aaradia	”

By "mastered" he means he stole the form from some other style, renamed it and changed it and learned it poorly and ineffectively and taught it even worse.
By "mastered" he means he says he "mastered" it, but in truth never did, he just likes to brag that he did as it makes him the "king of cool"

“	Originally Posted By: Mei Hua By "mastered" he means he stole the form from some other style, renamed it and changed it and learned it poorly and ineffectively and taught it even worse. By "mastered" he means he says he "mastered" it, but in truth never did, he just likes to brag that he did as it makes him the "king of cool"	”

yes he is a king. "king of fools". We can't bag the guy too much look at how much money he acquired from a lot of individuals. Enough to set him well off.

900! He is a Liar! Its Possible if he had spent a hundred year learning and another hundred refining but that is just impossible! Again, if all you do is spend your time training, refining and training some more I dont have the problem with the idea that a person could be exposed to 900+ Forms in there life time.

Let me define what I mean by exposed: To Have seen or been in contact with said form.

Which means that a person could be exposed to that many forms by learning 3 or 4 styles and going to verious open form/style tourniments. Which means you saw it but wasnt taught it. That mo!2#$ #$$^@ is a fraud !

Now had he made the claim that he has studied for 50+ years and has the knowledge of 600+ forms I could be tempted to say show me and be a little skeptical. But to prove it I'd have to see his notebook and a single form could never repeat itself. Im sorry I got carried away but this One of the BIGGEST reasons why Traditional Martial Arts gets a bad name. People make outrages claims that they cant support then they get the floor wiped with them and it has reprocutions for us all.

"In the year 2525, if man is still around, if woman is around they may find."

I may have woken up on the wrong side of the bed this morning so it might be better to ignore my rant.

Seriously, what's it matter how many forms anyone lays claim to? Whether it's 5 forms full of crap or 900 forms full of crap.... it's still crap. And I'm so sick of freakin' titles I'm just ready to puke...

On a redeeming note for SD. I have touched hands with some of their people and they have not been poor martial artists.

As a whole, the leadership is seriously misguided and for that, they will have to answer for what they've done someday.

The best was at the Tai Chi Dao seminar, when he was going and consulting with some of the masters during the breaks.

Also, you can dispute a lot of things about Sin The, but I feel the need to throw this out there. The guy is actually a pretty damn good martial artist. He does on occasion go through a form at full tilt, and it's pretty impressive.

I think this is probably where Shaolin-do's staying power comes from. Occasionally Grandmaster The does do something really amazing and grandmaster-ey. Occasionally some of their upper ranks are really talented. There's just enough truth there to make the lies seem credible.

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“	Originally Posted By: ace6foot8 Occasionally some of their upper ranks are really talented. There's just enough truth there to make the lies seem credible.	”

Condense all of the Shaolin-Do contraversey down into one short phrase and that is it! I've been on the business end of that situation myself, so I know how easy it is to trick people into.

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Thanks, I'll take that as a compliment. I just hate how so many people have read up on Shaolin-do and just concluded that "It sucks", and then go out of there way to say so as much as possible.

I really feel that Sin Kwan The and the Shaolin-do people have only committed one crime: They tried to make money with martial arts. As soon as you try and turn art of any kind into business, you just end up with too many pissed off customers and too much b.s.

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I can't say that I completely agree with you ace.... wanting to make money doing something you love is not a crime.... that would be the American dream so to speak... 40 acres and a mule... and all that jazz.

Here's just 3 issues that I see after looking at his website for 3 minutes.... as I see it of course

First Crime: His URL: Shaolin Grandmaster Sin Kwang Thé (gimme a break)
2. Misrepresentation: His new website states the following: More than 900 Forms from over 100 fighting systems... the youngest grandmaster in Shaolin History... I'm calling Bull**** on that whole thing.
3. Retaining Japanese cultural depictions and terminology while using the term Shaolin.... it's just incorrect in too many ways to list regardless of past circumstances

If you read on his site, it's amazing the claims that are made....

But again... there have been some good martial artists come from their ranks...

You see, this is were we're just going to have to respectfully disagree.

Form Enron CEO Kenneth Lay wanted to make money doing something he loved. Unfortunately that something involved swindling money from other people retirement accounts, and was highly illegal.

__________________
1. Research your own experience
2. Absorb what is useful
3. Reject what is useless
4. Add what is essentially your own

I'll chip in my little piece after only a couple of years in an enviornment where I have been introduced to many, many forms.. At first it was difficult for me to remember the forms, but after a while its gotten to the point where I can watch a form a few times and know mostly how to do it.. Doesn't mean I can do it perfectly, but it is coming MUCH easier now.. I only claim to know 8 forms in my family style outside of a few bagua palm changes and the 5 elements of hsing i..

I could see someone learning and knowing 600 forms over their lifetime(50+ years) but not by the age of 25.. Though I can't discount it, I think it is possible, if not improbable. I don't write my forms, movements, descriptions or any of that down because I retain it pretty well. Who can say I will continue doing it this way for the next 20+ years. Each person has their limitations for remembering.

Now onto mastering a form in a day... Another thing I can't say is impossible, but I don't ever see myself doing it. I relate everything to myself and how I learn, and I feel confident about the speed I absorb things, I just dont think I can fully gain the body flow to master any form in a day... Hell I don't think I can master 1 movement in a day to be honest... but thats just me.

On a seperate post... I've recently seen some of the "Master Level" Shaolin Do forms, and heard quite a bit from a co-worker about how things go and I was not at all impressed by the training done, or forms done. The guy I worked with tested for his black belt on a form less advanced than the second crane form I ever learned. And his knowledge of application based off of that form was almost 0.. I was able to show him applications from movements even he as a blackbelt hadn't learned. That confused me..