Training/conditioning your hands

Some people have said that using strikes that mimick animals are impractical because they will damage your hands and/or fingers. If trained properly I don't believe you will injur yourself. I am going to list some different strikes and then some exercise that will condition you hand/fingers so you won't hurt yourself when doing these strikes. If you have a particular strike and conditioning exercise then please share it.

Eagle claw (used for grabbing and siezing; usually done to the arm for grabbing or to the throat) - The exercise that we used was a larg canvas duffle bag like a miltary duffle bag filled with maybe old rags or clothes. We would hold it out in front of us with one hand while in ma bu and we would drop it with one hand and practice grabing it with the other hand. This was to develop a good grip.

Tiger claw (usually done to the face to rake or rake/strike with the palm portion) - Pretty much the same as above exercise.

Spear hand strike (snake hand strike. use strike to the throat, eyes, groin, arm pit, etc...) - finger jabs to a sand filled bag (vibrating fingers on impact).

Palm strike (usually to face) - same as above exercise only using the palm.

The key to using these strike is to know when to use them and to what part of the body.You dont want to do a thumb strike to the persons ribs or a something ridiculous like that. You want to make sure that the strike is appropriate for the target you aiming at. Also these animal strikes can be used in conjunction with your "normal" strikes such as front jab, hook punch, uppercuts, reverse punch, backfist, etc....

Well thats all for now. Please list some strikes you know and exercises to develop that strike if you know any.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

I can respect the arts/style (whatever) that train these things.
Personally I like to keep it simple.

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"Life is finite, while knowledge is infinite."
- Zhuang Zi (date unknown).

i've only used sandpot (or rice) to strengthen my hands.
to develop knuckles i was made to hit concrete for a specified period of time. from my understanding this is more japanese thinking...

I read somewhere two good ways to strengthen your tiger claw is as follows :

1)Get two jars with lids fitting to your girp size, fill them with as much sand as you can hold, get into your desired stance and hold the jars in the air by the lids just below shoulder height with your finger tips. Increase sand and or jar size as your strength improves.

I guess you could also put weights (I think the Chinese used heavy rings) on your arms to increase arm strength too.

2)Do pushups on your finger tips and thumbs. You can start on your knees to build up strength. Increase reps as your strength improves.

Although, come to think of it, I may be way off the mark, but that sounds more suitable for an eagle claw, but I specificly remember reading "tiger claw".

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"Life is finite, while knowledge is infinite."
- Zhuang Zi (date unknown).

Training Methods of Tiger Claw

The method is also described in my teacher's book: "The Art of Shaolin Kung Fu" by Wong Kiew Kit.

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Anthony Korahais
Website: http://www.FlowingZen.com
YouTube: http://www.YouTube.com/FlowingZen

Wow, yep, that's the book. Good book that.

__________________
"Life is finite, while knowledge is infinite."
- Zhuang Zi (date unknown).

“	Originally Posted By: Hero I read somewhere two good ways to strengthen your tiger claw is as follows : 1)Get two jars with lids fitting to your girp size, fill them with as much sand as you can hold, get into your desired stance and hold the jars in the air by the lids just below shoulder height with your finger tips. Increase sand and or jar size as your strength improves. I guess you could also put weights (I think the Chinese used heavy rings) on your arms to increase arm strength too. 2)Do pushups on your finger tips and thumbs. You can start on your knees to build up strength. Increase reps as your strength improves. Although, come to think of it, I may be way off the mark, but that sounds more suitable for an eagle claw, but I specificly remember reading "tiger claw".	”

Good post. By the way, you seem to be one of the few on this forum that doesn't critisize any of the TCMA techniques. Maybe now that you are envolved in more of the conversations more people in TMA can enjoy posting their comments without all these MMA putting them down saying these things would never work. I'm not saying MMA isn't good, just saying that seems to be all you ever here about now days.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

“	Originally Posted By: Jade_Dragon_03 Good post. By the way, you seem to be one of the few on this forum that doesn't critisize any of the TCMA techniques. Maybe now that you are envolved in more of the conversations more people in TMA can enjoy posting their comments without all these MMA putting them down saying these things would never work. I'm not saying MMA isn't good, just saying that seems to be all you ever here about now days.	”

You're just so defensive!


Regarding hand conditioning, or any conditioning, I personally believe it is very important for the practitioner to understand what they are doing and why. Just giving a list of exercises is not helpful by themselves.

So with that being said, for the exercises already mentioned, what exactly is being conditioned and how? How does this translate to your specific types of striking/gripping/ect?

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

Not being sarcastic but what do you mean by "what's being conditioned and how?" I though it was clear, again not trying to be a smart ***.

By doing these and other exercises your conditioning your hand so that you don't injur your self when you do these specialized strikes such as spear hand strikes (or snake head strike called by some), tiger claw, etc....As you and Mei have said before doing these strikes will damage your fingers. That was the reason for me posting these exercises. Some are for finger strength so that you don't jam and/or break your fingers and some of these exercises are for gripping power when using eagle claw for seizing and control such as in chin na techniques. Again you have to keep in mind that these strikes are intended for certain parts of the human body and should not be used on the wrong part or you will injur yourself.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

"Conditioning the hand" is a very generic phrase. What actually are you doing? Are you conditioning the bone? The ligaments? The tendons? The muscles?

Secondly, after you determine specifically which parts of the body (and I mean specific) then you can determine which exercises are best able to condition these parts.

So again I ask: For the exercises already mentioned, what exactly is being conditioned and how? How does this translate to your specific types of striking/gripping/ect?

__________________
"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

Here's how we generally approach conditioning with the hands:


To train the muscles/tendons, you can do a variety of gripping exercises so that the fingers can become strong. Gripping exercises can include grabbing the rims of large jars, dynamic/isometric tensioning of the hands and fingers performing hard chi-kung, and even things as simple as squeezing a stress ball.

To train the bone...wait, first toughen the skin... before you start pounding away, it's important to train the skin so that it doesn't break, bleed and then you have to wait to heal before conditioning again.... we generally grind the hands with sand coupled with a good regimen of proper bag and pad work so the skin becomes tough and doesn't break when training the bones.

Now, to train the bone, take it easy at first and continue to do bag work on a stiff bag, not a soft foamy bag.. you can also begin light contact to a small canvas bag with sand or bb's in it. Progressively you can increase the density of what you're striking till you reach the point where you're punching concrete, iron or what have you.

These processes are done over a great deal of time... this is not a 3-month "iron-hand" training program...

We use these exercises coupled with good Jow and a healthy diet.

I won't go into specifics of how to hit, where to hit etc... takes way too long and if you're that interested and don't know, people should find a good teacher.

By just reading, it looks like jade_dragon was trying to see how everyone else trained there hands for certain strikes. Also, asking to name the strike and how one would train it. So far as I can see it has gotten off the path a bit. I believe that there are only so many ways you can train you hand. Most styles incorporate a regime of hand training to strengthen the muscles, tendons, ligaments in the Hand, Forearm, Upper Arm, Shoulder. How each style approaches it will be slightly different.
I have done a tiny bit of tigerclaw training which included tree fanning, lots of pushups, and a various other amounts of stuff to give good grip strength. Which tends to leave when you pop a few metacarples, and break a few fingers.
Trying to give an iron palm program on a forum is silly. Trying to do iron palm by myself without the advice from my Sifu, older brothers, and my brothers that train it would have been aweful. What I can tell you is that a good iron palm program will condition the hands by: taking the fat out of the marrow, thicken the bone (not calcify), strengthen the muscles, tendons, and ligaments in the hand, and allow for better blood flow to the hand.
It is very true by "Just giving a list of exercises is not helpful by themselves." Nor is trying to explain the exercises. It might make sense to the person explaining it, but not the person reading it.
So, lets get to it. jade_dragon would like to know what Strike and Conditioning Methods used to develop that stike, wraithalcon, would like to know "what exactly is being conditioned and how? How does this translate to your specific types of striking/gripping/ect?"
thanks
train hard
tigerklaw

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Your future is created by what you do today, not tomorrow.

Tigerklaw is correct....I was just merely asking how others condition thier hands and for what type of strikes. I wasn't trying to get all detailed on the subject. I was just curious as to what other's teachers have them do.

__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

As much of the striking in Japanese Karate is based on the closed fist, in my schools there is not much as far as specialized conditioning. We used knuckle push-ups, finger pushups and makiwara for the hands & wrist. Blocking drills for the arms and shins. Partner shield work and heavybag work are also used. I use the wing lam iron palm method only on mung beans for my hands. Although some have told me I that I can damage my hands without a good iron teacher to guide me, but I have found it to be far less abusive than standard karate conditioning practices. I am thinking about getting gripping jars as well.

1.) Hold your arms straight out in front of you with the palms facing forward, positioned in Tiger Claws, slowly squeeze your fingers into a fist, do this keeping everything very tight and very slowly. (Isometric Exercise)

2.) Hold arms out in front of you, palms facing the ground, fingers spread out, close your hand and then shoot your fingers out like you're throwing lightning bolts, do this about a 100 times per hand.

These will strengthen the hand/wrist/forearm.