Fighting in forms

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"Life is finite, while knowledge is infinite."
- Zhuang Zi (date unknown).

Cut the guy a break you guys, sheesh....I think all he means is performing forms with intent.

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

“	Originally Posted By: Learning Drake I am not very experience in the martial arts however i can see that Mei Hua likes to argue and has had practice at it so im just going to stop thx guys.	”

Wait a second mate, you came to a martial arts discussion board, not everyone is going to think 100% exactly like you or even similar to you, you need to learn how to appreciate other views if you want to make it anywhere in the world.
And if you look at what I posted, I said what the benefits were from forms training, someone else said not all styles without forms sucked and I agreed with them and said which ones, I'm sorry you are missing the bigger picture here in reality, but don't blame me for your short sight, I originally agreed with you
Stick around, learn to accept differing views than your own and other people's experiences and share yours and thus everyone gains from the discussion

i actually agree with you learning drake

was just trying to coax a deeper disscussion

as for MH he's just loves fighting

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

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Drake seen your tag says pai lum? Is that what you've been studying for the last couple? Just curious.

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Sheng Hu

DRAGONSOUL

Personally I dont think Forms are a must to make a good fighter but I do think that they help. As Mei Hua stated the benifits earlier I am not going to reinterate them all but I do think those benifits are irriplacable. You can get the same benfit from more conventional (may not be the right word) excercise and conditioning but I think that forms translates that conditioning better than just modern excercise. Modern excercise & conditioning should never be forgotten though. Everyone most remember that, for the most part, people lead more active lives back when most of the "Traditional styles" where created. Farming, walkiung everywhere, building and working with your hands, and just plain old living was much harder than it is today. So Working Out, Forms, Sparing (for young children point sparring may be a better alternative) Two person aplications work, etc all benifit from each other. I think the Forms approach sometimes (most times) is the longer approach but its invaluable?(sp) in my Opinion.

Yes Dragonsoul

completely agree greenhorn

Now with Mei Hua he isnt neccassarily(Sp?) looking for a fight just has a verying point of view. I have rarely seen him bad mouth another persons view as long as the claims werent outragious or insulting (Such as the claims made by Sin The...Sorry wrong thread). So just take what he says with a grain of salt and realize he, along with a few others, tend to analaze MA as one would a science....Actually it can be quite benificial...


oh and PS I can't spell worth a crap two learning Disabilities makes it difficult but not impossible.

i cant even string a together sentence

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

One of the more interesting things I have seen multiple respected people mention concerning masters of martial arts concerns the relationship between fighting and forms.

On multiple accounts, I have seen experts remark that the masters that had the best application and understanding of technique had the "ugliest" and most awful looking forms around.

I believe that forms are a structured version of solo practice, but they do not and should not replace live 2-man work. They should also serve as a stepping stone to natural movement (I.E. shadow boxing). Ultimately, during solo practice, you should move away from being focused on pre-arranged movements and look to spontaneous actions.

At least, that is my take on it.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

“	and look to spontaneous actions.	”

Forms....ehhhhh.... how many times have I seen this discussion? Hum.....lost count. As the above stated quote says it all IMO forms should be just considered, well what they are forms. Meaning, they are the basics strung together to make a fake fight senario. honestly, I used to be into forms quit heavily, but started to realize more and more that the above quote was the best way to fight. Spontaneous actions, which a lot of times there is no form for. you have stances, punches, kicks, clinch tech., grappling, etc...but they are not put together in order when fighting, (the underlying basis for forms). So IMO why should you train that way?
Forms are probably good for one thing, learning basics. They do hold value in that regard but once you get past a certain level you have to go freestyle and learn your own way of fighting. . My opinion take it leave it, or forget it.

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Sheng Hu

DRAGONSOUL

Personally I believe that once you progress to the next level you must relearn what you have learned. Apply your new knowledge to the basics and learn it that way. I do agree that there is a point where spontaneous movement is needed. Though I don't believe to much in shadow boxing you have to make to much of an effort in trying every move. Id prefer Sparring over shadow boxing for spontaneous actions. But its still a good tool I have to agree with you there.

“	Originally Posted By: Green_Horn Personally I believe that once you progress to the next level you must relearn what you have learned. Apply your new knowledge to the basics and learn it that way. I do agree that there is a point where spontaneous movement is needed. Though I don't believe to much in shadow boxing you have to make to much of an effort in trying every move. Id prefer Sparring over shadow boxing for spontaneous actions. But its still a good tool I have to agree with you there.	”

Sparring > Shadow Boxing

However, like I said, you need a partner to spar. So shadow boxing is more for solo practice time.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

I think you're referring to visualizing an opponent during the form and visualing how the movements would be applied to an opponent. Also using the same amount of force that you would use against an actual opponent. If that's the case then yes I often practice my form this way.

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Extreme Determination!