Fighting in forms

How would you describe fighting in your form? Obviously when i say fighting i mean more than just going through mindless movements but for me at least is quite easy to see people whom are doing it and others whom are not. I don't mean forms which look 'good' even an ugly form done awesome will look awesome.I hate Modern wushu forms so please i am not speaking of that genre which to me is hard to see as even a form but just dance (sorry if i insulted anyone)

Do you mean making the transition from forms to fighting? Or how one sees the form to encompass the principles of fighting?

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Faith itself, compelled by the Holy Spirit, possesses an inner dynamism that necessitates deeper understanding. ~Thomas Weinandy O.F.M.

Ditto, can you clarify a little bit?
That was a confusing read

Well both its very hard to explain but when i see a group of solid (good) guys do forms i can tell they have done alot of fighting (contact sparring)by watching their form and soon after i see them fight and they can well then i see another group do forms and i can see they have mastered the movement but don't really understand. I am sorry its hard to explain but i can just see the difference.

I also think there shouldn't be a transition from forms to fighting because they are facets of the same thing if taught correctly i don't believe that contact sparring and forms wouldn't be taught together and rarely is it.

Imagine group X are taught contact sparring,bag work,forms and group Y are taught bag work and contact sparring who do you think will fair better?

To me the principals of fighting is just my way of fighting based upon my style,and forms should always convey application in all the movements separately with a resisting opponent and when at a better level of understanding combinations of such.I guess what i am trying to say is Without forms i couldn't fight for ****.

Do you mean you couldn't fight well without forms in the style you currently practice, or do you mean you couldn't fight in any style without forms ?

Also, with the given example of the two groups. Maybe the group with the forms or maybe the group with just the sparring and bag work. Even though, as I am sure your aware theres more to training for defense than just bag work and sparring, my opinion is it's more of an individual thing. Some may do better having forms some may excell with the extra time spent on sparring and not using forms.
May be a stupid answer, sorry if it's toatlly off the mark, but that's my opinion.
I'm still learning. Aren't we all..

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"Life is finite, while knowledge is infinite."
- Zhuang Zi (date unknown).

Im saying when forms are taught correctly with a combination of contact sparring and bag work i couldn't fight without my forms.

Some people fight well without forms but forms are vital so be complete in my opinion.

“	Originally Posted By: Learning Drake Imagine group X are taught contact sparring,bag work,forms and group Y are taught bag work and contact sparring who do you think will fair better?	”

As the world, more experienced martial artists, professional fighters, forms fairies and countless others have already seen repeatedly, the guys that train contact fighting will win.

Forms are good for giving a basic technique idea down, for cardio and endurance and muscle training, for teaching breath control and movement, but they in no way teach one person how to fight well at any given time, to think such is missing the big picture and shows a lack of understanding.

Nothing replaces real, live training against resisting opponents who are actively fighting back, I and numerous others here have seen people who only train in forms get into real fights and get owned repeatedly, often with an added bonus trip to the hospital for their foolishness and lack of reality

Of course there alot more to sparring and bag work then just that, working on distance timing reach figuring out your way of doing things well yeah i guess it is an individual thing but i think that also come down to how you are taught the form.

Mei Hua i agree with you but i said a combination of such not just forms

Aye and I said they were good, but specializing in only one area leads to downfall

i have never said forms teach you how to fight i said for me and others i work with do combinations of bag work forms contact sparring and couldn't imagine not doing all of them therefore it is ONLY my opinion that forms complete someone.

However if taught with combination they can make you a much better fighter then just working on sparring and bag work.some may find a different way of training without forms eg doing alot more drills etc but to me forms can't be replaced with more fighting.

i always think of forms as something to do

when i havent got a partner to train with

for me the forms just train attributes

the application of those attributes comes with contact

i dont know how the forms are practiced in pai lum

but in wing chun they are quite abstract at times

you could watch somebody do the first section of sil lim tao

(wing chuns first form)

and think what on earth has THAT got to do with fighting

but it is training all sorts of mental and physiological attributes

saying that though

i dont nessecarily belief that a system without form is crap

jujutsu springs to mind

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

“	Originally Posted By: Pope_Wingnut i dont nessecarily belief that a system without form is crap jujutsu springs to mind	”

JJJ, BJJ, Judo (to a point), MT, MMA, Submission Wrestling are all styles without forms and there is no one person who can say they aren't good for fighting.
Their skills are used by people, police/military the world over for such purposes, more often and effectively than styles with forms.

MT has forms don't know about others ive seen some pretty bad arse MT guys do forms but anyway you guys are missing my point im not discrediting anyone what i stated several times is for ME they are essential and anybody whom has trained them PROPERLY too.

I am not very experience in the martial arts however i can see that Mei Hua likes to argue and has had practice at it so im just going to stop thx guys.