Warrior Vs. Fighter

Fighter - no reasoning
Soldier - someone else's reasoning
Warrior - lives with reason
Artist -

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

Not so sure on soldier, I've known a few, after the war I know a few less

didn't seem like they enlisted without reasoning of their own........

maybe im wrong

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Soldiers Die Saints

cant a fighter also be a person who challenges himself by competing with others i consider myself a fighter, because i fight in kickboxing.
i think that the term warrior should be reserved for those who actually have their lives on the line, like our armed services in iraq. not to sound all cliche.

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I See I Have Been Gone A While

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Dragon
( ACTS NOT WORD'S )

I don't agree with you in that aspect.Although I have alot of respect for the armed forces.Lets leave this discussion only referring to the martial artists.
Fighting as a kick boxer does have it's virtues .But unfortunately has it's short comings as well.Every kick boxing style and MMA has it's roots in the traditional arts.It had to originate from somewhere.
I'm sure you even learn from a martial arts instructor,who was taught many skills
not just fighting.

Generally when referring to a warrior there would be a philosophy behind the art of being one.These skills were meant to develop strengthes where sometimes it is unseen.The philosophy behind the art was for ones survival,not just for the ring,but to develop a strength from within that would last a life time.Sometimes referred to as "spirit" .It is this spirit or energy that gives us the means to overcome any obstacle that comes our way .It could be applied to accomplishing a career goal lets say.All these skills taught are for the personal development of the individual and to be a success in the life.which is the true goal of a warrior,because this generally leads to peace in your life.A true warrior seeks peace in all aspects of his or her life.in everyway, form ,style,moral values,respect,philosophy,self improvement,focus,discipline,excellent health ,commitment,responsibilty.Does the ring teach you this

“	Originally Posted By: lightnin A true warrior seeks peace in all aspects of his or her life.in everyway, form ,style,moral values,respect,philosophy,self improvement,focus,discipline,excellent health ,commitment,responsibilty.Does the ring teach you this	”

maybe for other people it doesnt, but it certainly does for me. martial arts started me on the path to achieving all of those things you had listed, but kickboxing is waht is keeping me going on it. its different in the ring than it is in class, a lot scarier.

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Hard to define when the context is fluid. A nurse can have a warrior attitude in saving people.

Maybe it can be defined by what you give up. Or, does it define itself by motivation. is the fighter a more base motivation - as to say, more of the flesh - Can't a soldier be a warrior as well. I think soldier is more of a term like a job classification, you are a soldier but as such you may be a fighter or a warrior. Maybe a warrior is lead more by his spirit.

This subject needs more thought

“	Originally Posted By: dragonfly I See I Have Been Gone A While	”

hope to hear from you and i see why this could be so interesting.

Sure , I agree why not test your skills,and get it out of your system.Having a good foundation of self defence skills will help in demonstrating application of all your forms.It will make the forms look strong.It sounds like your on your way to being an instructor.
But ,eventually you'll look for a new challenge in time,and it may not be about sparring and winning trophies.Everyone has some sort of personal test<personal demons> to overcome or goals they'll want to achieve through the training.It may be about commitment to your school,but the big one I see many times is the test of the entertainment factor."I'm bored with my training.."
I encourage you to revisit, your earlier forms,back when you were a novice,and try to teach it to someone in class.They'll have many questions about the form maybe you'll realize something then,about what it is to being a warrior .It is not all about self defence.It is also about personal achievement as well. Just a reminder..
Remember .."Kungfu is a series of methods to strengthen the body and the mind,to develop fighting spirit,to increase mental and physical endurance,and visual awareness.At it's highest level,it will help man or women to better understand himself /herself and his or her neighbors' and to lead a better, more productive and full life." .. peace..
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Noi Shing - Patience ,diligence,perverance, this is the mountain we must climb,
That...and a good long horse stance..

“	Originally Posted By: lightnin I don't agree with you in that aspect.Although I have alot of respect for the armed forces.Lets leave this discussion only referring to the martial artists. Fighting as a kick boxer does have it's virtues .But unfortunately has it's short comings as well.Every kick boxing style and MMA has it's roots in the traditional arts.It had to originate from somewhere. I'm sure you even learn from a martial arts instructor,who was taught many skills not just fighting. Generally when referring to a warrior there would be a philosophy behind the art of being one.These skills were meant to develop strengthes where sometimes it is unseen.The philosophy behind the art was for ones survival,not just for the ring,but to develop a strength from within that would last a life time.Sometimes referred to as "spirit" .It is this spirit or energy that gives us the means to overcome any obstacle that comes our way .It could be applied to accomplishing a career goal lets say.All these skills taught are for the personal development of the individual and to be a success in the life.which is the true goal of a warrior,because this generally leads to peace in your life.A true warrior seeks peace in all aspects of his or her life.in everyway, form ,style,moral values,respect,philosophy,self improvement,focus,discipline,excellent health ,commitment,responsibilty.Does the ring teach you this	”

I would have to agree with you lightning! That last paragraph in this quote pretty much said it all about a warrior! Remember people, these are states of mind we are speaking of! Looking at it from a taoist's point of view, what the book is trying to show are three states of mind! The fighter is someone who is more or less bull headed with no real direction in thier life. The soldier is someone that has some sense of direction, but, is still somewhat clouded and able to see the truth in all things. The warrior is someone who has achieved inner peace, can see the all possible paths as well as see the result of any path they may choose. The warrior is one of the last stages in the higher arts and one who is very close to achieving a complete unity of mind, body, and spirit! I know you call yourself a fighter Elixer, but that is not what I would call you because you do have some sense of where your life should go! By no means was what I said ment to offend you Elixer!

[quote=lightnin]
Generally when referring to a warrior there would be a philosophy behind the art of being one.These skills were meant to develop strengthes where sometimes it is unseen.The philosophy behind the art was for ones survival,not just for the ring,but to develop a strength from within that would last a life time.Sometimes referred to as "spirit" .It is this spirit or energy that gives us the means to overcome any obstacle that comes our way .It could be applied to accomplishing a career goal lets say.All these skills taught are for the personal development of the individual and to be a success in the life.which is the true goal of a warrior,because this generally leads to peace in your life.A true warrior seeks peace in all aspects of his or her life.in everyway, form ,style,moral values,respect,philosophy,self improvement,focus,discipline,excellent health ,commitment,responsibilty.

BINGO you hit the nail on the head lightnin

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There are but three ways,
the way of the Heavens,
the way of the Earth,
and the way we must follow,the Tao.

Lin Tui

.."Kungfu is a series of methods to strengthen the body and the mind,to develop fighting spirit,to increase mental and physical endurance,and visual awareness.At it's highest level,it will help man or women to better understand himself /herself and his or her neighbors' and to lead a better, more productive and full life." .. peace..


Along with the other one I quoted again the nail

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There are but three ways,
the way of the Heavens,
the way of the Earth,
and the way we must follow,the Tao.

Lin Tui

Too many people subscribe to the Americanized philosophy of martial arts circa the 60s and 70s.

Being a "warrior" meant fighting for your life and your family. It meant that you had to fight for your next meal, for somewhere to live, to keep what was rightfully yours... It had absolutely NOTHING to do with all that other esoteric crap.

“	A true warrior seeks peace	”

Think of how much of a ridiculous oxymoron that is. A true warrior seeks war. If one seeks peace then don't call him a WARrior.
That's what the American culture did for the Asian MAs back in the 60s and 70s. Thanks to TV shows like Kung Fu and a few others.

That's like saying a "true" vegetarian loves to eat meat... a "true" heterosexual male likes to sleep with men...

Too many people get caught up in the romantic side of the esoteric principles of MAs and then they miss the whole point because they try too hard to romanticize.

Please quit already....

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

Cam I agree. I have said it over and over. People who think like this have not done an reasearch past the past couple hundred years. This Ideal is relatively new and based on what we are being force fed from Samurai culture. Because the west was not really introduced to the culture until after its decline. Hagakure wasn't written until well after Japan had been in relative peace for near 100 years, 1716.

Plenty of time for people spend hours talking about how great things used to be. Just think about how much it happens now. We talk about how things were better when we were young. Our teachers talk about how much more disciplined students were or how much harder they trained. Its human nature.

Just about Everyone of your heros in MA fought his @ss off whether in actual battles or as a matter of individual combat.
Many killed people on the regular. Until eventually they had the Luxury of basically retireing if the survived.

Often, as a byproduct of there Class structure some were educated and could or would pursue arts and medicine and such.
Many warrior cultures had an ethical component but it was very personal and subject to change. Honor is a subjective ideal.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

esoteric crap i thought true martial arts was a spiritual journey

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Aristotle was not Belgian. The central message of Buddhism is not "Every man for himself." And the London Underground is not a political movement. Those are all mistakes, Otto. I looked them up.