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Old August 8th, 2004, 01:20 PM
jetli jetli is offline
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syllabus for hung gar?

my instructor just teaches a few of us from a big garage at his house and we dont study for grades.
a martial arts centre has opened in my town and he was asked to teach there so i think he will. most people will want to grade so they stay at it and he never learned from a syllabus so does anyone have a copy of their syllabus so he could get a few ideas from it
itd be much appreciated.
our hung gar comes from the lam sai wing lineage.
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Old August 8th, 2004, 03:50 PM
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Hmmmm

I would think he would just teach it like he was taught

Do you know if he remembers the name of the techniques and forms he was taught

It's not something in my opinion that is a big deal.

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Old August 9th, 2004, 12:15 PM
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Hung gar has this problem in that anyone who was ever good at it seemed to have gone into hiding or was killed during the boxer revolution (sounds like a good title for a film eh).

As far as im aware there are only 5 'traditional' forms..and thousands of added on's in an attempt to make it a complete and proper system again. Shame really.

Figure the best method would be to have competitions in order to grade people on their quality of techniques, and NOT on amount of techniques.
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Old August 9th, 2004, 12:49 PM
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He should look at what he was taught what he teaches and the diffuculty of material then decide what progression he wants to follow then divy up the material
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Old August 13th, 2004, 04:12 PM
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If your sifu studies a common variant of Hung Kuen (usually through Wong Fei Hung), the syllabus will include 4 core forms, which are often called "pillar forms". The 4 common forms are-

Gung Gee Fuk Fu Kuen (Gung Character Taming Tiger Form)
Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen (Tiger Crane Double Shape Form)

Depending on the lineage, he'll have one of these- Ng Ying Kuen (Five Shape Form, commonly known as Five Animals), or Sup Ying Kuen (10 Shape Form, commonly known as Ng Ying Ng Hang, or 5 Animals 5 Elements). Anybody from the Tang Fong branch will have the Ng Ying Kuen, whereas people from the Lam Sai Wing branch will have Sup Ying Kuen.

Then the last form taught is usually Tit Sin Kuen (Iron Wire Form)

Curriculum-wise, the progression will be exactly as I listed the forms-

-Gung Gee Fuk Fu Kuen
-Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen
-Ng Ying/ Sup Ying Kuen
-Tit Sin Kuen

For starters, I'll have to wholeheartedly disagree with what Li Xiao Long said. Hung Kuen has never been known for having tons of forms. Commonly you only have the 4 forms and two weapons- usually butterfly swords and long pole. Even with minor forms, misc weapons, and two man sets included, you'll usually have less than 20-30 forms. This is FAR less than most systems.

The Lam Sai Wing branch of Hung Kuen has more forms than the Tang Fong branch, but you'll have village variants that have way more forms than both branches combined. However, one of the differences between the village variants and the more common Hong Kong based Hung Kuen is that the village styles don't always have a connection with Wong Fei Hung. The village systems usually have way more material because they learned from whomever they could and just systemized it.

In the Lam Sai Wing branch, there are a few minor forms that were brought in by a variety of disciples. Some of the more common ones are-

-Lau Gar Kuen (Lau Family Form)
-Mui Fa Kuen (Plum Flower Form)
-Jin Jeung/ Chum Sam Jeung (War Palm/ Heart Penetrating Palm)

Usually these minor sets will find their way in to the system some time after Gung Gee Fuk Fu Kuen. It's become more common nowadays to teach some minor forms BEFORE Gung Gee, but this was never the purpose of the minor forms. For instance, Mui Fa Kuen was brought in to the system specifically to have a bridge between Gung Gee Fuk Fu Kuen and Fu Hok Seung Ying Kuen.

In the Tang Fong branch, I believe the only minor form is Gau Ji Lin Wan Kuen (9 sons continuous fist). I know that the Ho Lap Tin line thru Tang Fong also has a form called Lau Sing Kuen (shooting star fist), but I think Ho Lap Tin developed this form after Tang Fong had died. So the more common one amongst the differing Tang Fong lineages is Gau Ji Lin Wan Kuen.

As for weapons, you'll have-

-Monkey staff (the Lam Sai Wing branch and Tang Fong branch both have this form)
-Lau Gar pole (Lam Sai Wing branch- this is a minor form)
-Saber
-Butterfly Swords (there are a few forms depending on the lineage)
-Kwan Dao
-Spear
-8 Trigram Pole (Lam Sai Wing/ Tang Fong)
-Tiger Fork (Lam Sai Wing/ Tang Fong)
-Single Chain Whip
-Double Chain Whip (some lineages only do double and not single)
-Straight Sword (not all lines have this since its not a common southern weapon)

Some of the more common two-man sets are-
-Gung Gee Two Man (I think the Lam Sai Wing branch is the only one that has this)
-Fu Hok Two Man (Lam Sai Wing/ Tang Fong)
-Monkey Staff Two man
-Spear vs Kwan Dao
-8 Trigram Pole Two Man


This is obviously not a thorough breakdown since every line is different, with some having less forms than others. Other people learned more than one system, so they'll obviously teach more.

The easiest way (which others have mentioned already) would be for your sifu to teach as he was taught. However, this can be hard to do sometimes. My sifu teaches privately as well and he teaches whatever he feels like teaching you at the time. My progression through the Hung Kuen forms was not like how most people do it. In fact, I learned Iron Wire (typically the last form taught) as my second form.

I differ from sifu in that I teach in the regular progression. For me its just easier to teach that way since Hung Kuen has been wonderfully thought out. It's progression is very good, building on principles that were introduced in the previous forms. However, I do not teach a single form until the student has been with me for at least a year. So for that first year, all a student learns are drills that concentrate on key methods geared towards fighting.

When I first started teaching however, I was very stingy with the pillar forms, so I taught minor forms first (which, as said earlier, was not the original plan for minor forms). However, at one point, I grew tired of working on the minor sets. So I decided to teach gung gee to some of my newer students to see what the learning curve would be like. I noticed that the newer students who had started with gung gee had a much better foundation than their seniors who started off with minor forms. I should have followed sifu's example because he ALWAYS teaches gung gee first.

I eventually eliminated the minor forms outright because I felt they didn't cover anything that wasn't already in the pillar forms. The pillar forms also have hei gung (chi gung), which is something none of the minor forms have.

Overall, there is no real set way to do anything in martial arts. In the end, the focus should NEVER be on forms. Forms are only a teaching tool that enables you to catalog the system specific methods and principles. The most important thing to understand is the faht (method), which enables you to understand proper fighting skill. The bottom line is always fighting. Where you go from there is where you go, but everybody should start from the common denominator of fighting.

The problem I have with most grading systems is that they focus on quantities of forms instead of content. I've never seen a grading that focuses on content within a form- breaking down the faht and analyzing bridging, energies, stancework, etc. So when you have a focus on quantity vs quality, you get a bunch of students who know a bunch of stuff they can't use.

I hope this helps. I appologize for such a long post.

Peace
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Old August 13th, 2004, 08:36 PM
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As usual a very well thought out reply with alot of information.


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