The Bastard That is Shaolin

Hey Sammy, what exactly is Bai si?

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The more we sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war. Therefore make your exercises bloodless battles, so that your battles are bloody exercises.

"Bai si" is the term for becoming a disciple (as opposed to just a student).

Essay on Bai Si from Hung Fa Kwoon

It's an interesting term and worthy of its own thread as people tend to have strong opinions on the idea of the martial disciple as well.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

okay, I understand the disciple part. But the idea to become a disciple by buying it (though I know it happens) disgusts me. Not the idea of the money itself, but the fact that you become a disciple in one day with no other experience by giving cash.....disgusting attrocity is the only way I can describe the way that it demeens a long and honorable tradition.

Sorry to rant....Thanks for the info though! ^.^;

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The more we sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war. Therefore make your exercises bloodless battles, so that your battles are bloody exercises.

No prob ...

A lot of ppl feel the same way.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

I was so disappointed when a few years ago I discovered the Shaolin temple was not quite what it used to be. Does anybody know of a modern, similar type of place?

A regular school with a live in program would be the closest.

Or, if you're in to Modern Crappy Wushu, the Shaolin Temple or a Chinese University.

Have you made an intro post in the Newcomer's Forum yet like the rules ask you to do?

“	Does anybody know of a modern, similar type of place?	”

In a word... No.

It depends what attracts you about the idea of the original shaolin though. You can still go there and train full time if you want...

There are still teachers willing to take serious students for full time training in the traditional way but without the temple structure. Thing is, you live in their house, you do everything you're told, and you pay for the privilege. That's not something any one in their right mind would sign up for with a total stranger.

Maybe the easiest compromise would be something like a visit to Chen village?

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

Back at Sammy, you guys have some sort of live-in temple arrangements, no?

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

We do have a live-in program at the Orlando school, although it's not an austere temple-like environment. There is a dormitory across the street from the school (at least I think there still is, some of the property I believe was sold a couple years back), with full kitchen & etc. Or you can stay anywhere else you want -- a hotel, apartment, with a friend, whatever. It's a full day (8 hours) of training in an environment that is all kung fu, all the time. But there's no religious element, you don't have to pledge yourself to buddha or whatever. You just have to train hard.

There's other live-in schools, too. The rates are quite reasonable and in most cases less than what you would be charged by a school in China, these days.

IMO if you still want to go to China to see kung fu, and you've never been before, go with a martial-arts-centric tour group for a few weeks where you pay a package rate and someone else handles most of the arrangements. Then if you still just have to go train at Shaolin Temple, you will at least have had an initial look-see (and seen lots of other cool stuff around the country) without giving up all of your cash. And you won't find out the hard way why it sucks to be a monk.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

l just dropped in to see what was the discussion . l read this about bi ci. you dont have it right at all . bi ci is offered to students who stand out its not something you sell . unless the teacher has no ethics . its something one works for . the money thats given is called in english lucky money. after this is done the teacher now becomes his sifu and part of his sifus family. he then doesnt pay ever again if the sifu has a good business year he then gives his disciples lucky money at the chinese new year. l did bi ci more than 30 years ago or more and have never paid another red cent since. half of the bi ci when rcvd is given to the sifus sifu . before this sifu is only ones instructor, sifu is indicating a martial art father and you are a tode or yup moon dai ji . tradition is you can only do bi ci once. if one comes from another style usual for the teacher to talk to his old instructor first before being accepted .

good to still have you around Old guy.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

That's one of the controversies. The way oldguy described it, that's how a bai si should be -- you really are an excellent & dedicated student, you will be one of those to carry on the system. It's a 2-way street, maybe you don't pay tuition any more, but now you have much more responsibility, plus you are considered family & have to take care of each other.

However, today it's not uncommon for some teachers to sell the discipleship. I remember reading an article about a shaolin-style teacher who-shall-not-be-named, "taking on American disciples." In the picture was a line of over 50 American students coming to obtain their "discipleship" with money in hand, all in 1 day. Each one bowed to him, handed their money over, boom, they're disciples.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

l guess l am a student but l have been teaching for almost 40 years maybe more a very long time. but l still wont be called master except by my own disciples . l cant be a master to anybody else . thats as it should be. yes l am still around as my youngest who turned 20 this year says l am old as dirt lol this as he hangs on to the holy **** handles as we take the curves in one of my cars lol. allways had the need for speed that way death cant catch up heh heh.

Good post Mr. Oldguy.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

Seconded

Oldguy often has some very insightful and excellent posts to add