The Bastard That is Shaolin

I was having a dissussion with a friend of mine about the shaolin temple, and was so passionate about it I decided to hear the opinon of other martial artists.
The discussion was if you could just take a year or two and travel somewhere to learn martial arts what would be the greatest place to learn/practice martial arts. He instinctivly said The shaolin temple. I however think that is completely wrong. True enough in the past it might have been a great place to learn, but not anymore.
See what happened was that during the Cultural Revolution they burned down the shaolin temple. Later decided it was a national treasure the govn't rebuilt it. However it is not the same, it is not shaolin, It is a bastard child of shaolin and the chinese communist govn't. I mean they go on the road doing tours and shows, which is fine, but they make their skills off to be more like a side show. The Shaolin temple has a giftshop for visitors, Hell in china they even have their own reality T.V. Show!
The shaolin temple used to be a sanctuary for those seeking spiritual enlightenment, greater martial arts skills, or an escape from the world. Now it is a place to learn "wushu" to go on the road like a traveling sideshow, be seen on t.v., and sell novelties to tourists. I personally feel that the govn't stripped what was once a sacred place for martial artists and buddhist's alike, and turned it into a money making scam.
That is why I say it is the Bastard that is Shaolin, not the real Shaolin.

Well now you've heard my point of view, I would love to hear yours! Do you agree, disagree? Am I right or misinformed? However I do ask that you respond in a mature and civilized manner, I'm not writing this to be attacked.(As my friend quickly did after during an amazing shade of red!) I'm writing this to spark thought and discussion on a landmark that was once beloved and honored by Martial Artists, not to insult anyone else's belief's, opionions, or art.

Semper Fi,
~Patrick

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The more we sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war. Therefore make your exercises bloodless battles, so that your battles are bloody exercises.

Hi Semper,

There's an EXCELLENT book that was published recently by Matthew Polly called American Shaolin. I've been wandering these forums to see if anyone has reviewed it as of yet. Anyway, this book gives an honest (and sometimes disturbing) look at Shaolin Temple in the 20th and 21st Century through the eyes of one American. It was an excellent read, but I felt rather the same way I did after finding out about the Tooth Fairy after reading it. Our perception of something--like the Tooth Fairy or Shaolin Temple--is often different than the truth. But either way, both can be meaningful based on the intent behind the belief. Is Shaolin Temple the best place to train? Perhaps for some. It depends on what you're seeking. Usually the best place to train is the place where you are--that's why you chose it in the first place. But it doesn't mean you have to stop putting teeth under your pillow...

)))Chop(((

It's all just modern wushu and San Shou now, isn't it? Nothing wrong with San Shou, the people in my school are all about San Shou. The modern wushu is what I have a problem with.

I agree with you whole heartedly, Shaolin is Dead in its traditional sense (at the Temple anyway).

I want to check out the temples up on wudan (any thing to know about that place...?)

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"If you meet Buddha on the road, Kill him."

Oh no! Another dedicated martial artist finds out that modern Shaolin is a tourist trap!

Just kidding. It is a bit disappointing to find out the way the temple was rebuilt and its role in improving revenues for the PRC tourism department. And it's a hot topic on most message boards

"American Shaolin" is a great book, I oughta do a review here, don't know why I didn't think of it before! However it's just one of several resources about the Shaolin Temple "rebirth" that are worth checking out to see just how much of a sham it is, or if the "sham" covers up some still-remaining treasure.

1. Jet Li - As a teenager, Li and several members of the Beijing Wushu Team were cast in a joint Japanese-PRC production titled "Shaolin Temple." The movie was filmed on-site. At the time, Jet Li recalls that the temple was mostly ruined buildings and barren property tended by one or two ancient monks who had sneaked back after the Cultural Revolution. The road to the temple was an old dirt road and traveling back to the hotel each night took over 2 hours, so Jet & other teammates used to just jog back. When released in 1980, "Shaolin Temple" was a massive hit in Asia. A lot of tourists, especially Japanese, started asking to visit. And bang, a massive business opportunity dropped into the PRC's lap.

2. Wah Lum - In 1986 Master Chan Poi took a group of kung fu students to the Shaolin Temple, the first U.S.-based martial arts group to do so. By this time, Buddhist monks had returned to the temple grounds (likely at the request or with permission of the PRC gov't.) and were rebuilding and restoring the site. Pilgrimages to the Shaolin Temple were becoming more popular, at least from Asian countries. There were many reasons for this, but preeminently it was large numbers of people wanting to rediscover the source of Chan Buddhism and Chinese martial arts.

3. 1992 - A group of Shaolin monks tours the U.S. for the first time. Two monks defect.

4. 1994 - Matt Polly travels to Shaolin and becomes the first American to train full-time with the martial monks. A decade later, he writes "American Shaolin."

5. Mid-1990's - Dr. Rich Russell travels to Shaolin as part of a tour organized by Matt Polly. He begins returning annually to train as the disciple of a temple monk. His e-mails to friends about his adventures get circulated so widely that he starts posting them on his website, Russbo.com. The site -- while massively convoluted -- contains probably the most detailed record of Shaolin's transformation from backwater hick town to modern tourist mecca.

6. Gene Ching - an associate editor over at Kung Fu Magazine, he's made several trips to Shaolin, documenting them for the magazine. His articles constantly wrestle with the opposing concepts that modern Shaolin Temple presents: money-grabbing tourist center vs. tranquil headquarters of Chan Buddhism.

So anyway -- those are some interviews and resources you might want to check out regarding Shaolin's rebirth. It's a complicated place and a complicated issue -- for example, consider that Shaolin is a practicing Buddhist temple in a country that frowns on religion, with a government that wants to strictly control beliefs, business and lifestyles.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

Acutally as for the Wudang Mountains, there are some good temples to train at, unfortunatly most don't accept foreigners. My teacher actually trained in the Wudang mountains for two years learning Qi Gong and Chen Taiji Quan after he was diagnosed with a disease they said would kill him in six months. He first went to the temple and was rejected for being a foreigner, however with a introduction from a chinese friend, a formal letter asking for acceptance to live and train there written in chinese, and the fact that he was dieing, they allowed him to live there and train. After those two years he was cured of his disease and went do train with his current Master Niu Sheng Xian for three years learning Xing Yi Quan, Bagua Zhang, and Yang Taiji Quan. So to answer your question, yes the Wudang is a excellent place to find a traditional temple, however most of the arts learned there would be internal martial arts, and it can be quite a task just to be allowed to stay if your a foreigner. However it is well worth the ordeal in my book. ^.^ Hope that helps.

P.S. -I'm going to check out that book, thanks for the info!

Semper Fi,
Patrick

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The more we sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war. Therefore make your exercises bloodless battles, so that your battles are bloody exercises.

Hmm. Good luck to your father, but a traditional temple does NOT teach Xingyi, Bagua and Yang Taiji (Yang as in Yang family, the ugly looking bearded guys). More like Taoism, Taoism, or Taoism.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

Well, a traditional Buddhist temple might not exactly teach "Taoism, Taoism, or Taoism."

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

Well it was a Taoist Temple, and he didn't learn Xing Yi, Bagua, or Yang Taiji until he left the temple. At the temple he learned Qi Gong, and Chen Taiji.

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The more we sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war. Therefore make your exercises bloodless battles, so that your battles are bloody exercises.

Last I read Wudang was run by a former shaolin monk...

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

Scandalous!

My friend and student (who speaks chinese) and I are planning a trip over to wudan. Who knows maybe they will let us hang out and train and maybe not.... but either way it is good to know that someone has done it.
I personally am hunting wudan jian and some bagua training, but we will see. I should see if I can get an intro letter as well... smooth things out.

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"If you meet Buddha on the road, Kill him."

Ya know, if you go to any of the Buddhist or Taoism temples in China, you can have pictures taken of yourself doing "famous" kung fu poses with an exotoc/historical background behind you (ie pagoda forrest, entrance to Shaolin, ect.). I've heard of so many ppl doing this, never really quite understand it, but then again, guess thats just a self image thing. (Ya know the monks that live there, that have seen some stupid pictures taken have to be like "What the hell...", smile and nod their heads.)

Thanks,
-Ngfamilydude

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If you want something you have never had, You have to do something you have never done!
-Unknown

Pagoda Forest Picture Taken From Chairlift Near the Shaolin Temple.

WARNING: May be traumatizing to certain individuals looking for the tranquility of the Shaolin Temple.

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If you want something you have never had, You have to do something you have never done!
-Unknown

“	Originally Posted By: ngfamilymember (Ya know the monks that live there, that have seen some stupid pictures taken have to be like "What the hell...", smile and nod their heads.)	”

Or, maybe they're just friendly folks who don't mind welcoming tourists and who like having their picture taken (which an awful lot of people in China enjoy).

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893