CMA systems named for villages

In other posts I mentioned our village, I should perhaps clarify that a bit. My wife and I live in a congested urban area (Taiwan is one of the most densely populated places in the world) but nonetheless we still are situated in a village, well at least in name. As a holdover from the Qing Dynasty (and the Japanese period) Taiwan is divided up administratively into families, ling (鄰burroughs), li (里villages), and then on up to districts (區 qū) and cities.

And each village has a poetic name. For example we live in Bright Light Village, Guang Ming Li(光明里). The name can also be translated as Luminosity Village, which really has a Daoist ring to it!

Now turning from Chinese political subdivisions to Chinese martial arts; it is fairly common for individual teachers to name their systems after the village or county where the system was developed or where the teacher lives. For example here in Taiwan you will have Tainan County Hung Gar that is a different system than Taichung County Hung Gar. Or another example that people might be more familiar with in xingyiquan (Mind Intent Boxing) is Tengu Xingyiquan. Tengu was a fairly famous town/city in China and the xingyi that came out of their carried with it the name Tengu Xingyiquan. Or, Yung Chun (Wing Chun) is the name of the town in Fukien where that system was developed.

What you ended up with was that every village/town martial arts teacher kind of had his own system. In a vague way it is like in Mixed Martial Arts where you have the Lions Den (Shamrocks approach) or the Miletich System, a collection of things that that teacher thinks is worth teaching or that he simply happens to like.

And Chinese have a strong sense of connection to their hometowns so often to show their affection or loyalty to their hometown they would name their martial arts system after the hometown. Now let me be quick to add this was not always the case. But it is common enough.

One thing I would close with is, you sometimes hear people make vaguely contemptuous remarks along the lines of oh, that is just a village system. Umm, there is no proof that village systems are anything less that other systems. The only difference between village systems and big name systems is that the big name systems get on the covers of the magazines more often. But—at least from where I sit, being on the cover of Inside Kung Fu is not an indication that the system has any quality.

[on a side rant, will somebody please tell the magazines that Brian is very tired of seeing the stupid half assed Hollywood facial expressions on the covers of the magazines.]

Take care,
Brian

Brian,

No doubt what you're saying is true... I remember a discussion way back on the old Southern Fist Forum (SFO) about the so-called village styles...

It basically went like this (and Illusionfist can back this up as he was around when it happened, at the center even): the old Hung Kyun masters never spoke of "village styles" - there was just "old" Hung Kyun (i.e. generally pre-WFH Hung Ga), and new Hung Kyun (that from WFH and later...).

Nowadays you have trolls and even wikipedia articles going on about "village-style this" vs. "village-style that"... even the term "pillar set" was first coined right on SFO forum!
(sadly which is now defunct) and now kids are running around using it like some litmus test of authenticity Most haven't a clue what they're talking about.

That said in northern systems (of which Taiwan is rife) they seem fond of villages, but also towns and provinces do seem to have a prominent place. Shaanxi this, Hebei that, iota, iota...

In general though I agree with your statement. I think often adding a location was simply a marketing ploy - designed to differentiate a product; It's like adding a sticker "new and improved" on the same old product with 50% less fat, or "new management" on a failing restaurant. :/

Cheers,

mok

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What is the sound of one hand clawing? -- chanh buddhist proverb

You know what? Someone should start a petition about all those stupid facial expressions ....

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"If you meet Buddha on the road, Kill him."

“	Originally Posted By: mok In general though I agree with your statement. I think often adding a location was simply a marketing ploy - designed to differentiate a product; It's like adding a sticker "new and improved" on the same old product with 50% less fat, or "new management" on a failing restaurant. :/ Cheers, mok	”

I disagree.

In many ways, there are differences among how regions performed techniques.

Shaolin being a good example, Honan/Henan Shaolin is different than Shantung/etc/etc/etc/etc.

In many ways, while something shares the same name, how it is used and performed is different than how another does it.

It's not adding a new sticker, or a marketing ploy, it just differs region to region depending upon the characteristics of that area, things were shared and changed between this or that master and style, thus while two of the same system could have a form, ie (super effervescent fist) it could be done completely different than how another city/region does it due to numerous reasons, one being a particular master's preferences, another being the chosen specialties of said region, etc....

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

LOL - well Mei, you may very well be right... Of course I wasn't saying that all regional names are a sham, but I do feel that too many are (is this the point Brian was making?). I see you're taking the high-road on this one - that's fair.

Anyhoo glad to see we disagree on something... Otherwise people could be wondering if we have some kind of hidden agenda or something .

Actually I may have muddled the issue by bringing-in provinces and stuff. I think there is no doubt that there is a different flavour between say similar arts as practised in Fukkien vs. Guangdong, etc. If a variant has spread far enough to include a whole province or region, then it's a good sign that it has something unique to offer.

But a village? Looking at individual differences accross villages is basically looking at stylistic differences arising from individual sifus within a style. You can take any 2 sifu's of any style and there will be stylistic preferences, even differences in methods. Unless you happen to have a high-concentration of masters of a same style all in the same village, all somehow agreeing on doing things the same (highly unlikely if you ask me)... why would a village be more representative than a specific lineage or variants due to individual preference?


Cheers,

mok

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What is the sound of one hand clawing? -- chanh buddhist proverb

I agree with Mei.....I too have to disagree. I wouldn't say its a marketing ploy by putting a sticker that says "new and improved" on the same ole' product. Like Mei says the very same techniques could be done with a different "flavor" from one village to the next. For example, I learned a form called Plum Flower Fist from my Sifu. I learned this form in a fluid manner. A friend of mine who I had not seen in a long time said he learned this form so I asked him to show it to me. To my dismay he did the same form as I had learned only with more of a "jerky" flavor to it instead of being fluid and smoth (same moves though). He learned his version of Plum Flower Fist I think in Nashville while I learned mine in Lexington. So I can see how it can vary from region to region. It be like saying Nashville Plum Flower Fist vs. Lexington Plum Flower Fist.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

Wow - you're stretching it there, no? If your friend does it more choppy, it's probably 'cause he was taught different from his own sifu, and even more likely that it could be his own personal flavor. The "village" has nothing to do with it... Let's say your friend moves and now does it choppy in Aurora. Is it now "Aurora-style"? which is some version of "Nashville-style"?

You really can't talk and attribute such a small difference to Nashville, unless if everybody (or a significant number) in Nashville does it a) the same way and b) in a way different than yours.

Heck I bet we can take any 2 honky-tonk musicians in Nashville (which has way more musicians than kung-fu masters) and get them to cover "Blue suede shoes", and no two of them will do it alike. And Nashville is much bigger than a village, so you really think "village" differences are that significant ?

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What is the sound of one hand clawing? -- chanh buddhist proverb

No i have had converstions with my friend on this and he says that his sifu taught this form in this manner and that he was told it's supposed to be this way so I don't think that it is his own personal "flavor". He said everyone from his school does it this way. My sifu teaches it in a fluid manner and says thats how he was taught the form. Same form and techniques just different in the way it is taught. Hence, Nashville version and Lexington version.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

Well I could say the same thing to you about what Brian said in his first post here...someone living in Bright Light Village (Guang Ming Li) that does kung fu and then moves two villages away is it still Bright Light Village Kung Fu or does it take the name of the new village? I know Nashville and Lexington are bigger than a village. I was merely using it as a comparison since we (U.S.) don't really have villages, we have towns and cities.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

“	Originally Posted By: mok there is no doubt that there is a different flavour between say similar arts as practised in Fukkien vs. Guangdong,	”

Lol! You get it all the time in mantis, even within mantis styles. It's mainly due to master differences and where they moved around when they taught. You have one split at taiji tanglang/taiji meihua tanglang. Then within taiji tanglang you have someone like Chui Chuk Kai who spent time in Vietnam and HongKong/Macaw; the flavor of his students in these two areas is different and they are both different from the mother province on mainland China or in Taiwan.

It seems to me there are many principles that remain the same and underly most of the Chinese styles. They just have a different flavor.

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Exactly, they have the same principles. I was just trying to show how the same thing can varry from one region to another but still be the same thing.

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Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage