overarms rear bear hug, sunk in tight?

My neighborhood here in San Chung City is blue collar and you see occasional fights, in particular on late Friday nights and Saturday early mornings as the boys are coming home from their all night fun and games. I was up early going over to the 7-11 for the paper when I saw two guys get into it. It was not super serious (in the sense that I thought somebody was going to the morgue) but it was real enough. Also too the guys were not super drunk so they were actually still able to fight in a moderately decent sense.

Guy A gets Guy B in a tight overarms rear bear hug and manages to get him flipped over to ram his head into the ground. What saved Dude B was that Dude A let go of him on the way over and Dude B could post his hands out to save his head.

So--what do folks think are some of the best ways out of a rear bear hug, the attacker has his arms over yours, gripping you right at your elbows and got it sunk in tight.

I realize the answer to that maybe..."well Brian, you are outta luck, you will be checking out the pavement next, when the dude pile drives you into the sidewalk". And yes, I have asked about the worst case situation just to start with that.

If I had to start to answer my first three moves might be:
1. sink my weight down (making me seem heavier and harder to move)
2. if I can reach them, slap both of my hands over his
3. shoot one of my legs back behind me, between his leg
(or, I have heard the idea to grapevine one of your legs back and around one of his to keep him from snapping you around).

What do you all think?
take care,
Brian

From some personal experience with bigger guys who have got me into a rear bear hug...

Sinking the weight is okay, but some people are really good at uprooting you and sending you over there shoulder, plus if you sink down trying to make yourself heavier (usually) you are focusing your center of graviety forward, so if he/she bumps you forward you'll fall face first...but if your good at your ground game and he isn't then it could turn into your favor.

The hook wrapping with your leg against their leg works pretty well. Just got to maintain it while he/she is moving.

A bunch of other things are rear head butting, violently shaking/wiggling one arm until it is free to try and use it (as elbow strikes, palm/punches, wedge, grabbing, etc.)

I tried writing something else out but it was getting too hard to explain in words...lol. Anyways, as others offer their views and training you will get a bigger overall view it just really depends on your skill level v/s the other persons. If it is just a bear hug to controll, usually pretty simple...but if he's following it up with a slam or a slam to follow up with some ground control, then I believe it can get kind of technical.

Another note that maybe someone with experience can shed some light on. Has anyone heard of instead of pressing outwards with your arms against the huggers arms, pulling your arms together (like what they do in volleyball sometimes) and shooting them up against the huggers forearms / wrist area to break the hold upwards so you can duck your upper body out? I had a guy tell me this once, but I forgotten about it and never tried working with it to see the possibilities. Anyone know anything on this?

Take care, train hard.
-Ngfamilymember

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I really like the Bear Hug...specifically seeing how different schools deal with the self-defense from it. Invariably, every school I have seen at least, has wacky counters that do in fact work...but the guy doing the hugging is jsut standing in place. Its a whole new ball game when they are trying to take you down.

I'll be honest and say I don't have a lot of counters I would put a lock of stock in. Being a bigger individual, bear hugs were never a problem with me because I could step around the person's legs and negate a lot a leverage.

The only other counter I would put much stock in is grabbing onto the attacker's arms (so he doesn't transition into a choke) and doing a forward roll. From there you have to work your wiggle magic, but at least you control the transition to the ground instead of getting slammed.

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I like the sink/sidestep pull his leg up between yours try to get the knee take down kinda thing...

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
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Even though this may seem over simplified, and probably not the most reliable method, think about this: it is one thing to hold onto somebody, its another thing to hold onto someone when they're kicking you in the knees.

HUH???? I'm not understanding. I know it is pretty hard to kick someone when your close range type combat. Even short kicks don't work well, the best I've seen used in short range is ankle stomps...but that's about it. That and knee's but I don't count knees as a kick!

Elaborate!
-Jeff

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“	Originally Posted By: bobblehead I like the sink/sidestep pull his leg up between yours try to get the knee take down kinda thing...	”

Yep, that's what I learned.

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If he knows what he does you don't get time to sidestep, let alone would he allow bending down. I from feeling would think of moving my arms forward before he sinks anything in so he cannot complete the hug in first instance, and if so I would turn trying to make space with my shoulder/back and keep turning to draw him around and not allow him to get a good base. Breaking an arm out if possible while bumping backwards into him as hard as you can is another option. Usually it's the not allowing a hug in the first instance, since noone is lightning quick so you are locked without time for reaction throwing the arms up and forward. But you leave him the chance to go for a suplex instead. Maybe Baikotare can give an idea how to avoid a suplex.

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If someone just has a bearhug on you without a crosswrist or some other additional control, you'd have to be something like a scarecrow not to be able to improve that position.

Step out with one foot, back through the space with the other, force one arm up as much as you can on one side while at the same time jerking the shoulder of the other side down. You should be able to turn enough to even secure one of his legs ala a high crotch. A simple bearhug doesn't really give you that much leverage to hold the opponent there.

If you are really worried about being thrown, you can just 'sag' your weight down when you feel him stepping in to leverage the throw (you may go down, but you won't be thrown), or hook one of his legs with one of yours (just throw an ankle around his calf) and physics will prevent him from being able to get you up enough for a serious suplex.

A bearhug from behind without wrist control seems almost childishly simple. Now, if he takes a cross-wrist on you, we are looking at a different situation.

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

I meant what would you do if he takes your hips as in Randleman/Fedor to avoid that suplex, when he doesn't bearhug but goes under the arms ? Provided he does it fast and immediately goes for the suplex.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

Here are a couple of Bas Rutten's counters to Bear Hugs. From his Lethal Street Fighting DVD.

Attached Images

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	rear-beat-hug-counter-1.jpg (21.2 KB, 6 views)

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In a mma bout, my opponent got my back like that, and before he could get a good grip and settle in, i stomped his foot hard enough so that i had trouble walking for at least two weeks. I'm sure that meant multiple fractures to him...

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

Bas said that the common bear hug is not a great move because it has a lot of counters. The main danger lies in when one person bear hugs you from behind while his friend goes to work on you at the same time. He has some counters for those too but I'm tired from all that screenshotting.

I think the Suplexing motion is more practical to the way Nik was talking about, which is not a bearhug really. Hooking your leg around the other guy when he does a standard rear bear hug is usually enough to buy you time to escape.

Stomping the foot sounds great, but with adrenaline, he might carry on even though you shattered some bones. Always good to do a few good extra shots, like hit his foot, groin, and throat. or whatever combination works for you. Never know when he won't be effected by something he should be.
I'm sure you know that bobblehead, just throwing it out there.

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"To alcohol ! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" - Homer Simpson

“	Originally Posted By: Doughboy Stomping the foot sounds great, but with adrenaline, he might carry on even though you shattered some bones.	”

Yep, he did exactly that, and i know that now.
Then again, i watched the rest of the bouts that night, and he went to the hospital...
Still, hooking the leg is my fave option...

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

To Jeff,

thanks for your reply. Admittedly, what I was referring to as kicks should have been referred to as stomps. I was talking about bringing the leg forward from the hip, knee bent, and stomping backwards onto your aggressor's knee. Obviously this would not at all be appropriate in a competition situation, due to the damage it can cause, but is a quick way to disable a genuine aggressor. Happened to me last year in a competition, my knee cap ended up about 3 inches to the right of where it should be. ow.

Hope that has cleared it up for you.