Mandatory Military Service

Some of the Korean students I tutor are getting close to that age and dreading and/or trying to figure out a way around the two years and two months that is mandatory for all South Korean men.

From the many, many accounts I've been told of it is not a pleasant experience at all.

A know a number of our members have served in the armed forces. I, for one, have not.

Do you think that a certain amount of military service should be mandatory for all young men (women?) of a certain age?

Why or why not?

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

That's a really tough question! I think that there are many benefits to national service. If nothing else it would give young men and/ or women a sense of the sacrifice professional service men and women make and how lucky we are to have people who are willing to put their lives on the line for our peace and security. Armed with that understanding, one might postulate that they would become better members of society who would value the freedom they enjoy all the more, having some understanding of its cost.

The other side of the equation is a country taking two years out of a private person's life and (sometimes) de-humanising them. Not everyone can cope with that sort of thing, it can be damaging.

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Faith itself, compelled by the Holy Spirit, possesses an inner dynamism that necessitates deeper understanding. ~Thomas Weinandy O.F.M.

I think it could instill a sense of duty/discipline/honor in many people today.
Teach them a skill/trade, how to work as a team, how to manage on your own, how to care about more than just yourself.

Overall, I think it could do a lot to improve things in ways, but again that all depends upon country/commander and MOS

Another part of the question is, would it strengthen or weaken the military?

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

That's a 50/50

You'll get good solid people willing to serve and work hard and you'll get lazy chumps who want no part of it.

In that method, today's way of volunteer only works best as most serving do so of their own volition, whilst the draft took tons of people, many who didn't want to be there and slacked or went nuts.

I've thought about it before -- considering that the military was a good thing for me, and for most of the people I served with. But all of us were volunteers & wanted to be there which counts for a lot.

I've always thought some sort of national service -- not just military, but a civilian component -- would be another way to instill empathy, help young adults mature & teach them practical skills. Then people would have a choice -- they have to do 2 years of compulsory service, but it doesn't have to be military. And they receive additional compensation for their service (similar to the GI Bill & VA loans for military service).

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

Mandatory?
Not at all.
Israel does the same thing with the IDF, and I agree with it for them because tey're in a constant state of 'war'.
But I don't agree with it for the US, our military's big enough to be good, the governments just to cheap to give them good gear. More people would only make that worse.

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If the problem has a solution, worrying is pointless, in the end the problem will be solved. If the problem has no solution, there is no reason to worry, because it can't be solved.

Most countries dlist members post from used to demand military service. They all stopped doing so and not at random. Germany is one of the last countries in the EU to still require military/civilian service and they are well into the process of changing that - for good reasons.

After the My lai massacre the recomendations in the psychologist's reports included a conscription military/ national service because it would mean the military included a much wider spectrum of personality types - particularly people just generally oposed to the idea of being told what to do and fitting in with a group - and so make atrocities less likely by reducing the "comply with the group" effect. From that point of view it would be good for the military.

Personally I don't trust the idea one little bit. I think the whole mind set is fundementally wrong. Besides, I've seen what military service in the soviet forces is like for recruits from the republics.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

As a taxpayer in Taiwan and as the son of a Chief Warrant Officer W-4; I am categorically against this. Here in Taiwan the boys still have 2 year mandatory service. It is an absolute ****ing waste of my tax money. The conscripts do not do a damn thing other than live off the tax payers. I remember the first time I saw a brave Taiwanese solider dusting---with a ****ing feather duster—the inside of a HumVee engine because his Sarge could not find any other make work for him to do.

The only time you need a conscript army is if you are in long term major land war. Other than that conscript armies have no purpose in the 21st century. And as for the idea that playing around for two years is going to build some kind of patriotism or respect for professional soldiering, please do not make me laugh. Most ROC conscripts manage to do four profound things in their two years:
Eat their first dog meat, that is an ROC military tradition said to put fire in your belly to kill ChiComs
Visit their first prostitute
Get puking drunk a couple of times
Learn to smoke

All of which is fine and well, but none of those things really build any sense of patriotism, maturity or respect for nation. And by the way what makes a modern military strong is a strong middle class of senior enlisted and officers who intend to stay in the military.

Take care,
Brian

against compulory millitary service

but for manditory public service for people who leave skool without a job

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Public service for leaving school without a job, doesn't make much sense to me. Sounds more like punishment. Service requirements should be universal, or not at all.

I agree with the uselessness of a conscript army, especially when that army's sole purpose is to have enough warm bodies around to slow down a ChiCom invasion.

Would a CCC-type service be equally useless though? What's wrong with having 18/19 year olds work on public infrastructure projects, fight forest fires, learn to fix vehicles, assist medical teams in poor areas, learn to cook for 2000 people at once? Basically what many soldiers learn, except they're not soldiers, they don't have to pick up a gun?

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

hey hold on isnt that what i said

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Nope -- I mean mandatory public service for everybody, job or no job.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: brianlkennedy As a taxpayer in Taiwan and as the son of a Chief Warrant Officer W-4; I am categorically against this. Here in Taiwan the boys still have 2 year mandatory service. It is an absolute ****ing waste of my tax money. The conscripts do not do a damn thing other than live off the tax payers. I remember the first time I saw a brave Taiwanese solider dusting---with a ****ing feather duster—the inside of a HumVee engine because his Sarge could not find any other make work for him to do. The only time you need a conscript army is if you are in long term major land war. Other than that conscript armies have no purpose in the 21st century. And as for the idea that playing around for two years is going to build some kind of patriotism or respect for professional soldiering, please do not make me laugh. Most ROC conscripts manage to do four profound things in their two years: Eat their first dog meat, that is an ROC military tradition said to put fire in your belly to kill ChiComs Visit their first prostitute Get puking drunk a couple of times Learn to smoke All of which is fine and well, but none of those things really build any sense of patriotism, maturity or respect for nation. And by the way what makes a modern military strong is a strong middle class of senior enlisted and officers who intend to stay in the military. Take care, Brian	”

I also served with a bunch of 18/19 year old slacks that were do nothing slack jawed yokels, but who learned a skill/trade, a sense of duty and responsibility and honor within their first two years and if they survived and retired, ended up holding a good job and contributing to Society.

I am 100% sure that is true and in a similar sense the bulk of Taiwanese who go through the army grow up and "learn a trade...hold a good job and contribute to society"....but--they would have done that anyway. Killing time in the ROC military is not the cause of them growing up, they would have done that anyway and the taxpayers would not have had to foot the bill for two years of "summer camp".

The single word that most Taiwanese males use in reference to their military service is:"waste".

Let me be quick to add, I suspect there maybe wide cultural differences. I presume Mei Hua is talking about US military service. Part of the problem with ROC military service is the low place of the military in Chinese culture since about 1800. That cultural background does little to add value to conscript service.

take care,
Brian