Conditioning vs. Technique

In my mind there are two components to working out (martial art or other), those being Conditioning and Technique.

Conditioning will refer to strength training, cardiovascular endurance, stretching, ect...

Technique will refer to learning the actual movements required for Conditioning Drills, Combat Drills, Applications, ect...

In Japanese and Western arts my experience has been that the two fronts remained largely seperated. You conditioned yourself, practiced, and conditioned some more. However, in Chinese Martial Arts I find that the line between the two becomes blurred. Conditioning Drills are also Technique (combat drills), and Combat Technique Drills can be conditioning exercises.

What are the thoughts of others regarding this

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

I think its both wraith.

Its a matter of the goals that you set for the training.
Drilling a specific movement(technique) is conditioning the sport specific muscles for that movement; hsing yi comes to mind.

Sometimes you just want to work out the kinks in the technique ie. feel, angles, flow, body position. More of the self teaching and mental conditioning.

Then you might just want to specifically hit the muscles for some isolated work. Squats or lunges, deep twisting stances or some weighted abdominal pulls or back strengthening for throwing.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

I think that they are one in the same, you can condition yourself using the techniques.

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The nature and purpose of the Martial Way is universal. All selfish desires should be roasted in the tempering fires of hard training.

i believe that on occasion, technique must be focused on solely....
but for the most part they are on in the same.....

wut better way to get a hard punch than punching 1000 times a day (or more, if u want! )....of course it's time consuming, and repetitive, and can get boring......but its the best way in my oppinion!

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The E.S.Q.

Without the proper conditioning your technique has no power. This is one of the reason's the horse posture is so important to building a good foundation of kung fu. While your not going to fight from a horse posture, its builds the strength and power to the legs to make kicks more powerful and your rooting more stable, etc etc. So technique and conditioning isn't always one in the same, allthough sometimes it is.

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" Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survival and extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed." -Sun Tzu

I consider them to be the same.

For example when I do my forms in Hung Ga I use wrist weights and a few iron rings. Now this in a nut shell is helping me practice my forms increasing my techniquw but at the same time conditioning my forearms and strengthing my upper body.

But for "most" techniques that you train in will be conditioning in one for or another. Like say your kicking the bag with a shin kick. This in affect is teaching you balance and the necessary mechanics for the kick. But at the same time while your hitting the bag with your shin its conditioning the bone and skin..not to mention your cardiovascular system if you decide to lead wiht a few punches or something along that line. See my point

Matt,

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The only thing neccesary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke,

“	your not going to fight from a horse posture	”

there's been ALOT of discusion about this....and i'll voice my oppinion on horse stance once again.......

i think that u SHOULD use it in a fight, or sparring.....oh course not to the extend that your training in horse stance should extend.....but used none the less......

i also agree with u that horse stance is integrall for developing leg muscle and especially rooting!

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The E.S.Q.

Technique is the horse stance. Sitting the horse for a long period of time is conditioning the horse stance.

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"You're lucky buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I have the desire to kick your ass!" -Richard Gere- from the Simpsons

i view conditioning as 1 component of good technique. you need to have a strong body in order to execute the technique to it's fullest extent, therefore there are seperate exercises to strengthen the body to achieve this. yes u can also condition yourself by doing the techs, which is why i say it's 1 component.

i've always found ppl complaining about doing cardio work in class as a little... off, for lack of a better word. Regardless of whether martial arts is aerobics or not, it's a physical exercise and you need to be somewhat fit when doing a physical activity!

however, i do believe if you condition the body too much before learning the movements, it'll hinder the execution of that technique. external power and muscle get in the way, rather than executing it just out of habit. i've seen too much conditioning get in the way of fluid movements, so just like everything else you need to balance it out. here's a quote from a friend that summed it up much better than i can: "power training will develop muscles (in guys), certain muscles get in the way of certain movements, but if u are use to doing the movement correctly, it'll be a habit, lot easier than having the muscle and then trying to do the move".

“	Originally Posted By: WraithAlcon What are the thoughts of others regarding this	”

ehhh... right...

I go with Pai...

there's a time and a place for everything
you can train different things seperately, but at the end of the day you've gotta bring it all back to a whole....

good training will make you more than just the sum of the exercises

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

This thread just as in all the rest on the issue have answers that are starting to go right down the line external and internal and the few mixture styles

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

I dont think you can seperate the two. You can condition yourself without working technique but I dont think you can work technique without conditioning yourself.

Everytime you train a technique you are effectively conditioning yourself.

Nuff said!

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The best form of defence is attack!!

Conditioning and technique are two entirely different things and are not even remotely related... and as such could be viewed as two entirely opposite ends of a spectrum.

For "success" one or the other has to be sought. For absolute success (read-beat more than scrubs) BOTH have to be sought to the utmost.

People who think technique and conditioning are "one and the same" think in one dimensional terms, mostly relative to striking, and have no clue about true submission grappling techniques.

Yes, repetition is conducive to good conditioning in most cases, but just because one repeats something doesn't make it good technique.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

“	Yes, repetition is conducive to good conditioning in most cases, but just because one repeats something doesn't make it good technique.	”

If the technique is a good technique and practiced through repitition could it make the technique easier for the practioner to apply

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"You're lucky buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I have the desire to kick your ass!" -Richard Gere- from the Simpsons

“	If the technique is a good technique and practiced through repitition could it make the technique easier for the practioner to apply	”

Certainly, if it's good technique to begin with.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."