The Shank or Shiv

Static pics cant tell a ood story but.

http://www.dragonslist.com/gallery/s...ts&searchid=29

PLaying with first response. He should be projected more or trying to grab me with his free hand to pull me in.

I'll try to find more or make some clips tonight.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

“	Originally Posted By: GuiLongUmar Its likely we're talking about being stabbed only 8 times as opposed to 15. I'd rather 15 times with a 2 inch than twice with a 7 inch blade.	”

That's exactly what I was getting at. Yeah you may have a better chance of stopping the stabbing but your gonna be in worse shape than if you were stabbed more tims by a smaller blade 9 times out of 10.

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Extreme Determination!

"What Plum described is our primarly defense unarmed against weapon. Bridge the gap to control the weapon arm. Then Attack the person. Then "defang"."

The problem with the way kali is taught at least to most new students is to think and use 3 steps as that describes ( bridge- some form of control???? and then attack or counter for the defang.......good bladders use one

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By nature we have an open mind by dogma we close it.

“	Originally Posted By: aqira control the ridge close to the wrist	”

Could you please elaborate?

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

Most people strap their watch there

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By nature we have an open mind by dogma we close it.

“	Originally Posted By: aqira Most people strap their watch there	”

Any caveats regarding grips etc.?

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

GLU : you not going for the destroy the arm thing?

A : "The problem with the way kali is taught at least to most new students is to think and use 3 steps as that describes ( bridge- some form of control???? and then attack or counter for the defang.......good bladders use one"

isnt this a matter of practice?

or are you saying i would be better off not breaking it down to start with?

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"....if you're ever attacked by someone armed with a banana, your first thought has got to be to eat that banana. Thus leaving him unarmed and defenseless." - ace

“	Originally Posted By: aqira The problem with the way kali is taught at least to most new students is to think and use 3 steps as that describes ( bridge- some form of control???? and then attack or counter for the defang.......good bladders use one	”

I wasnt taught that way at all. If I recall, at the very beginning I was taught in I guess 2 steps depending on scenario and then later once I was good with the motions I was taught to hit on the half-beat (making it 1 step). And then of course, quarter beats, which I still cant really do. IMO, asking a new student to start with half-beats will impede their progress.

Things of this nature are different with knife than they are with stick, and different with open hand. Starting easy is best.

“	Originally Posted By: bobblehead Could you please elaborate?	”

I think he types cryptically so that people think he is deep and complex...

All he is saying is to grab at the wrist (personally, I find it most effective to grab the big meaty part of the palm/thumb) and rotate the fingers towards the body. Its the common first step in disarms and controls, etc

“	Originally Posted By: Pope_Wingnut GLU : you not going for the destroy the arm thing? or are you saying i would be better off not breaking it down to start with?	”

The destroy the arm thing is is called a defang or gunting (which translates to "destruction").

Wingy, do it the way that is is easiest for you to learn and progress. If breaking it down is easier, then do it that way. Personally, I think that makes it easier for peopel new to the art to progress. Add detail and complexity as you gain ability...

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

"All he is saying is to grab at the wrist "

No never

"I think he types cryptically "

I thought saying where people strap thier watch was about as simple as it can get

"I wasnt taught that way at all. If I recall, at the very beginning I was taught in I guess 2 steps "

Most schools do the 3 step parry check strike...then they spar...then they wonder what went wrong

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By nature we have an open mind by dogma we close it.

Yeah aqira I see what you are saying and I absolutely can do and teach that but it seems considering the scenario hand to blade, attacking the weapon control is a little more difficult to teach and get a high rate of success. again that weapon arm is extending and retracting very forcefully and quickly. You may hit well and still not release the weapon.

It seems anyway. I dont really like two or three step actions in general. Like int he photo. That would have been on the One count. In most encounters when you engage you either get cut or dont. There's not a lot of exchanging of techniques before a cut is counted.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

“	or are you saying i would be better off not breaking it down to start with?	”

Somtimes in the past, I have had moments where the teacher was trying to show me a pretty simple movement, but my mind just couldn't take it all in. My teacher would then break the movement down for my benefit and as soon as they saw the little light in my head turn on they would make me condense it back into one movement. I think as long as you understand that the movement should be one and as soon as you get the broken up movements down, you should put them into one movement. But, I think whenever possible, just learn it in one movement from the start. Programs in good body memory.

Although, Paul Vunak teaches that you can actually speed up a movement by methodically training it in 2 pieces. For example, if you are practising the Jab, you can first practise just the initial body torque and shoulder movement but you don't throw your fist forwards ( ie the first half of the movement ), then the second part you just practice from the extended snap of the jab back to the withdrawn position. Then you practise it as one movement again and you have increased your overall speed even if only a little each time. This is something I am currently playing with.

GuiLongUmar,

Thanks for taking the time to post that pic. For me, if my opponent is attacking my body, it is then a much quicker attack for me to cut his attacking limb ( a closer target for me than my body is for my opponent ) on the first beat ( defang ). Also, is there is less danger of being cut if he quickly withdraw and redirects the knife as he attacks ( because he has your knife to deal with too ). Most people withdraw the knife very quickly. I realise it's a still moment in time, and maybe I don't see the big picture. Please elaborate ?

Happy Training !

Change things around a little instead of thinking parry then check try thinking parry or check as options either one meant to send the weapon to neatural...and never ever grab

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By nature we have an open mind by dogma we close it.

There are differing strategem regarding the defang. In the photo, I tap/parry the thrusting weapon hand outward at the wrist as I jab in toward vitals (face, neck). Keep in mind my center somewhat fades back to create some distance as a target his body and arm are going to continue to move forward even as I parry as a result he should almost impale himself on my striking hand. The next step would be the striking hand circling through to the weapon wrist(defang) then in for further actions.

Or defang first, then enter or as you enter.

[If he were smart he'd block out my striking hand and circle his blade up to fillet the inide of my striking arm.]

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

thanks . I understand better now.

“	Originally Posted By: bobblehead Any caveats regarding grips etc.?	”

I prefer saber grip for distance. Reverse grip for XCQC. Still experienced Bladers can switch on the fly and not skip a beat.


If you havent yet, Try reverse grip - Blade Towards your arm.
I know how it sounds, play with it and see some of the options.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit