Chang Ming - Taoist Long Life Diet

“	Originally Posted By: Allan I eat anything and everything.	”

Would that include 's

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Land of the Slave, home of the Knave.

if it's cooked right with the right balance of cooling and warming herbs and served at the right hour for tonifying the right organ with the right amount.

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May the force be with y'all.

In my experience having dealt with all kinds of sick people I would say that 98% of health problems are caused by bad diet and lifestyle.

For millions of years our bodies have become adapted largely to an intake of Natural foods. These days people eat any kind of junk mostly for pleasure and these foods have not been developed with health in mind but rather the profit motive. It's a lot cheaper to churn out some low quality product loaded with sugar, salt, flavourings and colourings than to produce something of real quality. In fact I would not even classify some of the things people eat today as foodstuffs at all.

One of the big problems is that on a diet like this their taste buds will simply get burned out and they are no longer capable of making the right decisions for themselves, in effect they become junk food junkies. The kinds of illnesses we have in the west such as heart problems, obesity, cancer and so on, the big killers, have not become common in China until recently since westernization, surely there is something to be learned here

I am not suggesting we go back to the stone-age but it seems fairly self-evident to me that common sense dictates a good balance of fibre, minerals, vitamins, protein and carbohydrates and that these are best obtained from vegetables and grains. Although I am aware of the various fad diets based on eating only this or excluding that I can only comment from my practical experiences of helping people understand this and seeing the results in action.

Lifestyle is important too. Here is a classic example to illustrate the point. One of my new students came to me complaining of paralysis down one side of the body and blindness. He was very pale, in fact his skin was yellow looking with dark bags under the eyes. It seemed to me his liver and kidneys were on their knees.

It turns out he had no breakfast, no lunch, and no dinner. He would eat some junk food or cold sandwiches at about 10.30pm at night. I got him to have hot food for breakfast, cooked lunch and no food after 7pm. Within a week the problem was solved and the colour had returned to his cheeks, I never saw him again.

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Seahorse Arts

I certainly agree with what you say about junk food.


But you have to admit that your stab at fad diets was mostly a stab at Atkins styled diets. Inuits also have a low incidence of heart disease, but there diet is VERY different from the Chinese, NO GRAINS, but like the Chinese they don't eat much of the junk food that Americans eat (refined sugar, refined grains, partial hydrogenated oils, chemicals, preservatives, etc), they eat healthy stuff like animal meat, and animal fat, and animal organs.

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"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

Actually I was not referring specifically to the Atkins diet, there have been many such diets over the years. The main principle behind this kind of thing is to patent a particular approach, usually excluding or including a particular thing, to write books and make money, it's nothing to do with nutrition.

The main emphasis on the Chang Ming diet is to eat locally grown foods in season rather than to copy the Chinese diet, as you say the Inuits can't grow grains in the snow, similarly the Masai live off blood and milk and they are all perfectly healthy. They have become adapted to this over the years, but it would be interesting to see how they responded to a diet of grains and vegetables. I guess it's a matter of what is more important, eating locally grown foods, or avoiding meat.

This diet is based on applying Taoist principles and to be fair these exceptions are in the minority, 90% of the world's population have come from a history of grain and vegetables in the diet, not much meat and certainly no modern artificial foodstuffs. On the whole settled people with an agrarian background would have followed this and nomadic people would have lived off their animals re the Inuits and Masai. The amount of meat and dairy products most people consume today is well out of proportion to what they are genuinely adapted to consume, that's the main point.

However we are not carnivorous in nature, we don't have the right gut for it. Meat eating on the whole is similar to cannibalism, we are not designed to digest our own flesh and it produces a lot of toxins in the system, grains and vegetables are easier to digest and have more fibre so they keep the intestines freer of toxicity, this lightens the load on the internal organs.

Some people think it's better to eat meat but in fact all the nutritional requirements can be obtained from vegetarian resources. Some health 'nuts' are weak and pale I know, especially vegans, but this is more to do with ignorance rather than lack of nutrition from these sources, look at the Gorilla, or Elephant or Rhino, they are veggies but they're not wimpy.

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The buck stops here.

Seahorse Arts

“	the big killers, have not become common in China until recently since westernization, surely there is something to be learned here	”

Yup, we could learn how lucky we are to generally live long enough to go down to one of the big killers.

“	we are not carnivorous in nature, we don't have the right gut for it	”

On what evidence Speak for yourself. When I first really got into yoga I went through a stage where I couldn't face meat. I did the vegetarian thing intelligently and carefully but it was not good for me. My body works best with a regular intake of steak, fish, lamb, pork, and chicken.

There are all sorts of reasons societies have chosen actual cannibalism and done well off it - provided they steered clear of the brain.

I think it's impossible to observe population groups and then accurately extract the factors that determine lifespan... Last summer we wandered around the graveyard in olmi-capella (http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichel...t_corsica1.htm if you ever get the chance spend a week there) and noticed that until recently every one seemed to live until well over 80. Was it the traditional diet of game, dried meat, cheese (your disdained meat and dairy), alchohol and grain, fruit and veg on the relatively rare occaision the preferred dead animals were unavailable Was it living on a steep hill and tramping up and down all day Or did the local priest get the decade wrong when recording births for a few years (it happens).

Sure, junk food is rubbish and too much of it is a bad idea. Living on sandwiches from the garage won't do you any good. Given the choice between the modern diet available to me and living on sweet potato, taro, a glut of whatever fruit / veg is in season, and the occaisional bit of pig/chicken I'll take my chances on the big killers. It beats dying an old man at 40 after years of dengue and malaria have beaten me down.

The only thing really clear after hundreds of years of diets is it's better to eat a reasonable amout of fresh fruit and veg than not to.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

“	he only thing really clear after hundreds of years of diets is it's better to eat a reasonable amout of fresh fruit and veg than not to.	”

I absolutely agree (and so does Atkins).......of course, I would include Spinach and Citrus Fruit, as I dont' find them poisonous.

“	90% of the world's population have come from a history of grain and vegetables in the diet,	”

They also came from a history of hunter/gathers first. Many believe that these hearders first grew grains for their animals and considered them for human consumption when populations grew.

“	ook at the Gorilla, or Elephant or Rhino, they are veggies but they're not wimpy.	”

They also have vastly different digestive systems. A cow, for example has 4 stomachs, because digesting grass is very very difficult. The cow has to ruminate, that is, spit up it's food when it's partially digested and chew on it some more. This is what's known as chewing the cud, when humans do this, as some Autistic kids do, it can eventually lead to death.

“	However we are not carnivorous in nature, we don't have the right gut for it. Meat eating on the whole is similar to cannibalism, we are not designed to digest our own flesh and it produces a lot of toxins in the system, grains and vegetables are easier to digest and have more fibre so they keep the intestines freer of toxicity, this lightens the load on the internal organs.	”

This is typical vegetarian propoganda that is touted often with very little evidence to back it up, and I contend that it is completely wrong. Our bodies are designed to digest meat perfectly well and they don't produce any toxins at all.



Chuangzu, even though I disagree with some of your ideas, I appreciate you sharing them, but I think people should also hear other points of view on this subject. I laude you for doing what most do not do, to ponder, research and apply a thoughtful philosophy to the way your eat and conduct your life. As I have said before, I have no doubt that your way of eating is much healthier than the average Western fast food diet, but I think there are many alternative ways that prove to be just as healthy.

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"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

“	Citrus Fruit	”

I was told citrus fruit, in particular oranges, were loaded with hystemenes and a terrible idea for asthma sufferers...

It just shows there's no definite answer. What worked for the woman who told me that obviously doesn't work for others.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

“	However we are not carnivorous in nature, we don't have the right gut for it.	”

A colleague got hold of a book touting this theory. It was based on the assumption man evolved from apes and apes are vegetarian (they are in fact omnivorous like us). She proceded to live on fruit and vegetables including almost half a kilo of grapes a day for lunch and snacks. After a week she went to a doctor with the book and an incredible pain in her abdomen. He announced the grapes were fermenting in her digestive tract, giving off vast amounts of gas and prescribed a week without any fruit, and a year without reading any stupid diet books.

It was almost as funny as the time the guy back home got sick and his wife, hearing yeast was good for you (vit B) pumped him full of live baker's yeat, which proceded to 'rise' inside him.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

“	Originally Posted By: john100 It was almost as funny as the time the guy back home got sick and his wife, hearing yeast was good for you (vit B) pumped him full of live baker's yeat, which proceded to 'rise' inside him.	”

LOL! She shoulda just given him a Guinness every day.

Anyone considering or following a strict/fad/other diet should read The Road to Wellville by T.C. Boyle. It's both a humorous look at the spa/diet fad of the turn-of-the-19th-century and a thinly veiled warning against blindly following "curative" diets. (Don't bother with the movie.)

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

John, I'd be curious to see the research on that. Most nutritionist would say that citrus fruits are full of anti-inflammatory compounds, interesting.....


I eat a good bit of fruit, now you've got me paranoid!

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"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

Storm, I don't have any research to back it. It's just one person's experience.

I'll ask the woman involved where she got her info but don't hold your breath.

Basically, I got chatting to one of the other serious yogis at the gym and it turns out her reason for training is Asthma. She is symptom free on a diet that cuts out what she called high hystemene foods and others - oranges, alcohol, caffiene (esp chocolate), spinach, tomatoes, and a couple of other things. It does fit with what I've read up on Ayuverdic stuff (they seem to hate spinach for some reason). She's also a vegetarian. She does the full primary series every day (which every one says is not for those not in full time training) into the bargain. The result is she doesn't get asthma, she's really thin, and her knees are ****ed.

Maybe it's the (over)training that solved the asthma, maybe its the diet, maybe it would've got better on its own.

I certainly wouldn't suggest you change your diet on the basis of this one person's experience, I just thought it an interesting example of how different people benefit best from very different diets.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

Interesting, I had heard people say so about caffeine, and alcohol, but not the other stuff.


But don't worry as many of these things have very proven health benefits, I won't be abandoning them anytime soon. I am open to new ideas, I'll have to look into Ayurvedic ideas.


On a side note, I have seen Master Huang eat just what pleases him and he is in absolutely amazing health for a man in his 50's. Take a look for yourself: www.huangtaichi.com Of course, I have never seen him eat out and out junkfood or fastfood. most of the stuff he eats is fairly wholesome stuff in the "normal" range of things.

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"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

Interesting site, some of those seminars look really tempting.

“	Master Huang eat just what pleases him and he is in absolutely amazing health for a man in his 50's	”

I believe it. My last teacher's teacher is the genuine article. In his late sixties and still fit and dangerous. He smokes like a chimney, eats pretty much what he likes (including plenty of 'fast food' from food stalls around Penang), and remains in good health. He doesn't drink but that's promises made after badly injuring people drinking and brawling, not a principle. I notice he never stuffs himself though, but I don't know whether that's on principle or because of his real vanity about being slim...

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

Fruit is okay but it should be in season and grown locally. A big problem these days is if people are eating imported citrus fruits which may be too acidic for a cold climate. In a hot country it's not such a problem because the acidity is sweated out.

People just seem to think fruit is healthy because it has vitamins in it but acids will disolve the body and affect the joint fluids causing arthritis and so on, as people age they become more acidic so having an alkaline balance is important to keep yourself young. One solution with acid fruits is to cook them and this does a lot to remove the acidity.

Spinach contains oxalic acid which is toxic, so does rhubarb and water cress. It can cause kidney stones. Ayurvedic medicine is heavily influenced by Yoga in the West which is really an ascetic religious practise, it's not based on health but self-denial.

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The buck stops here.

Seahorse Arts