Electrolytes: How Much is Too Much?

So I'm training 5-7 hours of oldschool Muay Thai here in Thailand at temperatures hovering around the 40C point. I've bought some electolyte powder and have been taking one pack in about 500-600 ml of water, before the more intense afternoon training sessions, and drinking about .5-1 L of water during training (I'm sure that's not enough, but I get bogged down if I drink more).

Now would it be too much to take another pack after training? I don't want to die like some burnt out extacy fiend here...

I can't read Thai, but the pack has a series of numbers on the back which read:
2, 46, 92, 79.3, and 19.5
...if that helps you at all...sts

thanks alot,
keep it rollin'...

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The E.S.Q.

“	Originally Posted By: MotjClan So I'm training 5-7 hours of oldschool Muay Thai here in Thailand at temperatures hovering around the 40C point.	”

Wow! You are going to be one fit dude!! How long are you out there for and do you have any goals for your training (fight Cam perhaps?? )

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Faith itself, compelled by the Holy Spirit, possesses an inner dynamism that necessitates deeper understanding. ~Thomas Weinandy O.F.M.

Drink at least a gallon of water over the day. Personally I think electrolytes are overrated, 2 bottles of gatorade or something similar before each session would probably do.

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You only die once. But it lasts such a long time.-French proverb

Yes, you fit dude, i shall be!
So far i've been through China and thailand training martial arts for 7 months now....but i had a 3 month stint there were I was hardly doing any training, so i'm catching back up now. I've been training hard like this for about 3 weeks now and it's going to keep going for another 7, then I have to go back home and start going to school like normal people! lol (damn that status quo!)
as for goals: "to be one fit dude!!" lol

But why do any of us do MAs? B/c it's a hell of a lot more exciting than knitting!

My instructor generally doesn't train fighters, but he's talked to me about possibly getting me a fight after a month or so, if I feel ready. I'm not sure I want to fight yet, but we'll see what happens. I also here from a friend TKD of mine back home that the amature MMA there is pretty weak and guys generally just win with bad technique and good conditioning, so he's going to take me to a fight and I might step in the ring a few times, make some s'cash...
Shhh! don't tell Camm though, he'll steal my thunder! hahaha.

and thanks for the info Philip, i try to drink as much as i can, but it just sort of stays there.... i can eat like hog, but water just doesn't seem to pass though me...like i sed before, it just sort of bogs me down!

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The E.S.Q.

Water will usually slow you down...try to run after swimming. You're not going to go nearly as far as normal. Just try to drink as much as you can spaced around your training sessions. Personally, I get at least 2liters of pure water per day and also drink tea, milk, and sometimes fruitjuice. But I never drink during normal technique training (conditioning is another matter).
You shouldn't drink more than you lose while training if you don't want the bog effect, but as much as possible during the day is something you should try.

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You only die once. But it lasts such a long time.-French proverb

In 40C temps, you need electrolytes. Too much "just water" can be fatal, it's killed at least one marathoner in Boston (not known for blistering temperatures especially in April). They are not overrated at all, unless you're a couch potato who mixes them with drinking water because somebody told you they'd help you get in shape.

Gatorade has minerals, minerals increase electrolytes. It's salt & sugar though, mostly. But you can drink that instead of electrolyte powder. Either one will work.

Also, put a little extra salt on your food once a day (or fish sauce), while you're training. (Unless you're trying to cut weight, but it doesn't sound like you're doing that right now.) And increase your water intake, not so much during training but between sessions & morning/night.

Are you getting headaches or anything during/after training?

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

I have taken an electrolyte supplement in the past, as well as making sure my water intake is up to par. Try this site for an example: http://www.herbalremedies.com/esel.html

Need to run, when Sammygirl mentioned fish sauce, I got a hankerin' for some Pho at the noodle shop down the street.

MotJ, how old are you BTW? just curious for myself because going to china/around asia to learn martial arts is something im wanting+planning to do (im 18)

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"when you fight the dragon, you become the dragon"
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Might be worth getting in touch with a professional nutritionist as general information may not be enough for you on a personal level and there may be some changes due to the environment you are in.

“	Personally, I get at least 2liters of pure water per day and also drink tea, milk, and sometimes fruitjuice.	”

I've heard studies claiming that need 4+ litres per day just for general every day stuff. Then another litre for every kilo you sweat out during training. I read in Men's Fitness that if you working out hard for more than an hour, that's when you should hit the electrolytes, but that's information being based on people who probably aren't training as hard as i am, or in such extreme tempetures, so i'm not really sure how that all adds up.

I think that one pack of this electrolyt powder is equivalent to 2 bottles of gatorade... not 100% sure though, i'm just basing this on the "numbers" being generally double those on the gatorade bottles! lol

“	Also, put a little extra salt on your food once a day (or fish sauce), while you're training. (Unless you're trying to cut weight, but it doesn't sound like you're doing that right now.) And increase your water intake, not so much during training but between sessions & morning/night. Are you getting headaches or anything during/after training?	”

No i'm not looking to cut weight, i'm fit and sexy! lol and like i said before, it's a pain drinking water b/c my body doesn't seem to process it all that well and it just sits in my stomac for a long time.
One of the guys at my gym drinks 4.5 litres of water during training (1.5 in the morning, 3 int the afternoon), with one pack of electronlyt powder for each 1.5L, then another 3L throughout the day. I have NO idea how he does it though, my body just won't let me!
And no for headaches, no usually...maybe once or twice a month...

“	MotJ, how old are you BTW? just curious for myself because going to china/around asia to learn martial arts is something im wanting+planning to do (im 18)	”

I'm 18 aswell, PM me about what your plans are or if you've got any questions, i might be able to help you out, or refer you to someone else who can help you out! It's always good to have someone you know for re-assurance while you travelling, i find....

“	Might be worth getting in touch with a professional nutritionist as general information may not be enough for you on a personal level and there may be some changes due to the environment you are in.	”

Good suggestion, but doubtfull that i'll find one here in Thailand!

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The E.S.Q.

Ah yes, Thailand, the land reknowned for its professional nutritionists ... or not.

Headaches can be a sign that you're dehydrated, also one of the warning signs of heat exhaustion of course.

I don't like gulping water, either. But I sweat like crazy in class. So I try to keep a liter of water on hand all day leading up to class, and sip on it all day. Your schedule's a lot different though -- and a lot more training -- so you'll have to try a few things and see how you feel. Like, taking the electrolytes before training, or taking them after; drinking a lot of water after training, or filling up X number of water bottles each day & being sure to drink them all.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl Gatorade has minerals, minerals increase electrolytes. It's salt & sugar though, mostly. But you can drink that instead of electrolyte powder. Either one will work.	”

That's why I said gatorade and not coke or water. Also, you can eat some nuts, add salt to your food like you mentioned, and you won't have any electrolyte deficiencies. Thats why I called them overrated.

“	Originally Posted By: motjclan I've heard studies claiming that need 4+ litres per day just for general every day stuff. Then another litre for every kilo you sweat out during training.	”

Most people will drink little to no plain water at all during the day, so that can't work out. 2 liters will already bring you some benefits. And also, it's hard going from soda and a liquid uptake of about 1.5 liters a day directly to no soda and about 4 liters of water plus additional liquids a day. So, I'm working my way up there. I'm comfortable with 2 liters currently, so I'm looking to double it now.

So, try to work your way up slowly. The best strategy I found for myself is not drinking much, then training like crazy for about two hours (and sweating like a madman), then just gulping down about a liter. It gives some people a stomachache, but I've never had that type of problem. This way, I got used to high water intakes and also began to like the taste of water. After some of those sessions I went through without any drinking at all, anything would have tasted good.

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You only die once. But it lasts such a long time.-French proverb

“	Also, you can eat some nuts, add salt to your food like you mentioned, and you won't have any electrolyte deficiencies. Thats why I called them overrated.	”

Well i realy comes down to electolytes being more affordable, actualy, and more readily available, believe it or not!

“	Most people will drink little to no plain water at all during the day, so that can't work out	”

Sorry, that also includes diet sodas, fruit juices, milk (soy/dairy), etc., etc.... should have specified!

Oh and I found out what those numbers meant btw...
Glucose: 2 g
Sodium: 46-92 mg
Bicarbonate: 79.3 mg
Potassium: 19.5 mg
Lemon Flavour (probably not a required measurement: 8 mg

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The E.S.Q.

If it's cheaper to drink the disolved powder than to get the electrolytes in your food, more power to the powder. Things like that are pretty expensive here, and decent quality food is relatively cheap, so I thought money might be an issue.

Also, the four liters theory makes more sense if it includes all liquids. But I just upped my intake of plain water to 4 liters and it's a pain in the behind and also makes bathroom visits much more frequent. And I tried working out on the first day of the increased intake...talk about bogged down. I was only able to handle half my usual weight, and gave up after half my usual workout. I'm hoping to get used to it, otherwise it's going back down...

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You only die once. But it lasts such a long time.-French proverb

“	But I just upped my intake of plain water to 4 liters and it's a pain in the behind and also makes bathroom visits much more frequent.	”

Yeah i know what you mean...i used to drink 4-6 litres of pure water ever day before i left home...things have gone down hill since though... but i used to pee constantly! lol

The electrolyte powder cost me something like 250 Baht fo 50 packets... which comes out to something like:
$7.53CAN
$6.62USD
€5.36
...So needless to say, that's fairly cost efficient...

(Off Topic: Wow, the Canadian dollar is doing pretty good these days! Last time i check it was $2.4CAN to the Pound, and 1.8 to the €! Now it's up to 2.0, and 1.4... go economy, go!!! lol)

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The E.S.Q.