eagle claw for officers/xing yi for cannon fodder?

Hi

i'm not sure whether this has been covered in any detail, but i have heard that back in the day, on the battlefield, Xingyi was the foot soldiers fighting system and Eagle Claw was reserved only for the officers as it is a superior style.

This seems a bit strange to me, seeing that if you want to win a battle you would want your frontline troops to be equipped with the most effective fighting abilities at your disposal. In the blood and gore arena of hand to hand fighting, you need every advantage possible in ensuring that you will win.

Also officers would generally be on horseback where utilising a fighting style is difficult (apart from trampling the enemy or whacking them with a sword from above)

I find this theory unrealistic........... Discuss anyone?

that's a strange theory !

What i know is that Yuen Fei taught his soldiers methods of fighting according to their physical abilities.

This should be the reason he is connected to the development of several CMA's.

Eagle claw is just a small part of this.
If you look at the Chinese court you would find Bagua, Baji, ....

so I find it hard to believe that eagle claw was only for officers

I think you're wrong here...


Fei created a system that untrained farmers would turn into soldiers
I believe it was a 2 month program
and that system became the basic eagle claw as we know it...

maybe it's the other way around...
eagle claw is far more basic and simple than people think

it's just that we always win that makes people think it's sooooo complex

Chief108

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hmmmm........



I thought that Yuen Fei was considered to be the founder of Xing Yi

According to some tales even the founder of Baji ( a lot of speculation to my opinion )



maybe I'm wrong ?

“	Originally Posted By: mengcunman hmmmm........ I thought that Yuen Fei was considered to be the founder of Xing Yi	”

yup...
and eagle claw...

Chief108

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all hail Martyr Fakka

Yuen Fei was supposedly the creator of Xing Yi/Eagle Claw/Baji etc - so much for one man in one lifetime to develop - how come the Eagle in bear/eagle Xingyi looks nothing like Eagle Claw Kung Fu?

“	Originally Posted By: mashup Yuen Fei was supposedly the creator of Xing Yi/Eagle Claw/Baji etc - so much for one man in one lifetime to develop - how come the Eagle in bear/eagle Xingyi looks nothing like Eagle Claw Kung Fu?	”

he must have been a very busy man

my guess in the differences is that all systems "evolved" over time...
from teacher to student, added stuff etc. etc....

you know
the way things work in this world...

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

Busy? The guy obviously had no friends..............

It seems the specific origins are lost in the mists of time

i would say from pure speculation that xy was foot soldiers - based off of spear movements.

the linear movements lends well to marching in formation, one step, one step etc.

as for teaching the best to the foot soldiers - impossible. they are dispensable. they just need guts and strength - mostly guts. TO teach the best - you have to take a lot more time and need more one on one coaching kind of thing.


e.g. - what's easier to teach to a mass - karate or bagua? which is beeter to teach a group of soldiers - just to be extreme to illustrate something.

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Ummmm... I'll take Karate for $500 Allan......

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

ding...ding...ding...

Correct for $500.00

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only close guards of an emperor would be taught anything advanced. They needed to protect the elite, can't have the commoners with any real skill that could be used against you. and the cost and time to train anyone would be spent on only those of the most important use.

eagle claw can be very advanced at higher levels but that takes a lot of study and work..I understand it was the preferred art for many years for protection of the court and high officials. Through a lot of history some form of chin-na has been at the core of the skillset of elite guards

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“	Originally Posted By: aqira only close guards of an emperor would be taught anything advanced. They needed to protect the elite, can't have the commoners with any real skill that could be used against you. and the cost and time to train anyone would be spent on only those of the most important use. eagle claw can be very advanced at higher levels but that takes a lot of study and work..I understand it was the preferred art for many years for protection of the court and high officials. Through a lot of history some form of chin-na has been at the core of the skillset of elite guards	”

that's also true ....

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

Hi guys,

I realise that I'm new here but I had to jump into the conversation as hsing yi is one of my favorite styles. I actually don't practice it because there are no Hsing Yi Sifu anywhere near me but I would love to practice it.

Haveing said that I have studied it quite a bit through various books & literature. I think the main question that was asked can be answered simply by stating that both of these styles are REPUTED to have been made by Yueh fei. There is no conclusive evidence that he had a hand in any one of the previous mentioned gung fu styles development.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that he didn't develop those styles either or at least influence them. The point is it is an unknown question. I personally believe that eagle claw & hsing Yi are not related in any fashion other than both of them being efficient combat styles from china.

Anyway, just my opinion.

If Yue Fei did invent eagle claw, and considering his predisposition to weaponry - does eagle claw have any weapons? Is it like how I consider XY in that its weapons first, unarmed later?

Aqira, I thought baji was the preferred art for those elite fellas and their special security forces (and still is)?

I suppose really what we need to do is compare both XY and EC to yue fei quan and see if there are any similarities - since aren't both derived from YFQ? Anyone got any info on YFQ anyhow?

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