tucking the tailbone

hey guys,

a week ago or so someone started a thread on the necessity or lack thereof of tucking the tailbone when practicing XY. i've been tweaking my san ti and found that "rolling the hips forward" (as Sun Lu Tang puts it) makes the posture more comfortable and allows for a more connected stance. when put into the 5 elements-- now here i claim to be no more than a mere beginner, but-- rolling the hips forward does in fact straighten the spine. now, because power in ima depends to a degree on the spinal wave, doesn't this make sense? if you want to send a wave down, let's say, a hose, which hose is easier to send the wave down? a straight one or a kinked one? not the best analogy, but just putting my 2 cents in.

Tucking the tailbone actually straightens the spine. Tilting your hips forward feels more comfy because that's probably closer to how your spine normally aligns. Tucking the tailbone also aligns your hips with your legs and with your spine straight your shoulder more easily align with your hips. That straight line (hose) you were talking about.
Also, tucking your tailbone tends to stabilize the lower spine keeping it from moving left or right, or "straight". At least this is IMHO.

No, tucking the tail bone is a bad thing and different than rolling the hips, which is more dropping than tucking. Breathe into the lower back when you do this and push out the L5 area. This will accomplish your goal without sacrificing structural integrity.

“	Originally Posted By: Gaoshi No, tucking the tail bone is a bad thing and different than rolling the hips, which is more dropping than tucking. Breathe into the lower back when you do this and push out the L5 area. This will accomplish your goal without sacrificing structural integrity.	”

So, a thousand years of Xing Yi down the drain!?!

When you "tuck in" the tailbone it's a subtle movement, not like when a dog tucks it's tail. It is accomplished pretty much the way you described.

The problem is one of language. I've seen people "tuck" their tailbones and it generally will harm the lumbar area. This action can easily be shown but is dificult to imagine if you haven't seen it. We went into some detail this weekend w/my teacher. But I've only been practicing xingyi for about 15 years so what do I know?

I confess to know zero XY, but the tailbone tuck (or hip roll if you prefer) seems to improve the body structure and Qi flow in general in TCQ. Taking into account the whole body structure thing - we move like the body is suspended from an invisible line from the top of the head. In my early days - this image helped me be sung - and it also placed my hips in the proper alignment.

Is XY getting at the same things (body mechanics, Qi flow)?

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“	Originally Posted By: Gaoshi The problem is one of language. I've seen people "tuck" their tailbones and it generally will harm the lumbar area. This action can easily be shown but is dificult to imagine if you haven't seen it. We went into some detail this weekend w/my teacher. But I've only been practicing xingyi for about 15 years so what do I know?	”

Temper, temper. I think we're talking about the same thing. The term "tuck", I think, is the rub. By breathing into the lower back, as you put it, it pushes the lumbar back and aligns (tucks) the tailbone. When I started Xing Yi (only a mere 18 months ) I would try to tuck my tailbone under my arse. Of course this was wrong, my shifu corrected me and directed me to do it as you instructed. See, we can all play together, can't we?

Sorry, I did not mean it in the way it may have sounded. As you say it's a matter of semantics. One must be careful, particularly with beginners, how these things are phrased, especially on the net. It's very easy, if not shown properly in person, to do some lasting damage.

Buddy

“	Originally Posted By: Gaoshi Sorry, I did not mean it in the way it may have sounded. As you say it's a matter of semantics. One must be careful, particularly with beginners, how these things are phrased, especially on the net. It's very easy, if not shown properly in person, to do some lasting damage. Buddy	”

No problem, and as a beginner, I agree!!

Pu Ji meng, where are you in Virginia?

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May the force be with y'all.

“	Originally Posted By: Allan_Tsang Pu Ji meng, where are you in Virginia?	”

Virginia Beach, where we love jet noise!

I'm quite the beginner in XY, but one thing I can say about the original post is from my first month practicing to my current status (which is still complete beginner). Things started falling into place a ton more when I "tucked my tail bone"/ "rolled my hips under". Now when I turn my waist if my structure isn't correct with my spine inline "tucked" I tend to fall over.

This is off topic, but hey maximus, I'm from Minneapolis as well, where 'bouts do ya practice?

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

Sorry to put this back on topic for a minute, but I've got to concur, I had multiple joint integrity issues from excessive "tailbone tucking". I've been working with a trainer to re-enforce L5 and it's a tough road to go.

Just focus on keeping that lower back straight, the natural pelvic tilt is important for long term support.

Good Luck!

-hz

“	Originally Posted By: n1ckmeyer I confess to know zero XY, but the tailbone tuck (or hip roll if you prefer) seems to improve the body structure and Qi flow in general in TCQ. Taking into account the whole body structure thing - we move like the body is suspended from an invisible line from the top of the head. In my early days - this image helped me be sung - and it also placed my hips in the proper alignment. Is XY getting at the same things (body mechanics, Qi flow)?	”

I have a buddy who practices XY and from what I have seen I would have to say yes. Wing Chun/Tsun also borrows from this idea but that is of course off the topic.

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