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May 26th, 2002, 04:40 PM
|  | Dystopian Philantropist | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denmark Year(s): not long enough
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I was wondering if XingyiQuan, like TaijiQuan, takes great deal of time to use practically, or is it short like WingChun I would think the no-nonsense approach would give you Something to work with after a couple of practices.
Anyway I am seriously considering this MA (since I can't find a BaJiQuan school in my COUNTRY) and I would still study it if I have to reap the rewards much later.
Thank you |
June 1st, 2002, 09:59 PM
|  | Dragon's List Allumni  | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta, Ga Year(s): 13
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Rep Power: 69 | | | Well......both! Of course it ultimately depends on your teacher. As an internal art, to truly develop a deep understanding of your body's energy, well that just takes quite a while! However SOME of the components in Xing Yi can be learned to a basic level well enough to use practically in a short time. (Of course, this depends on the individual) As I understand it, Xing Yi is very popular with law enforcement in China. If it couldn't be learned to a practical level in a relatively short time, I doubt that the police would use it! However, it takes a long time to develop the high quality power a fajing in Xing Yi. In a way it would be appropriate to say that you are not really doing Xing Yi until you get to a high level. But that's kind of the point, if you develop an attitude that "my punch is good enough" then you are not doing Xing Yi (or an internal art for that matter) So, in summary yes, if your teacher chooses to, certain Xing Yi skills can develop to a practical level very quickly, but it takes time to get to the good quality. However, I think you could say the same for Wing Chun, and in a sense good kung fu is good kung fu! Labels, internal/external are just labels good quality and understanding of martial principles makes for good kung fu!  |
June 2nd, 2002, 06:43 PM
| | Dystopian Philantropist | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denmark Year(s): not long enough
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Rep Power: 8 | | Thank you StormMountain
the point you made was very good...I am not expecting to be able to even grasp Fa jing for quite some time (the "how can it be" eludes me) I guess it is just something one eventually discovers on your own. thank you for the info..since the school I have been scoping out seems quite cool (14 days for free is nice  )
BTW I love the short forms that explain the principles of the elements, seen'em like'em, wish to learn'em.
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June 20th, 2002, 11:45 AM
|  | Retired from active duty.  | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom Style(s): Xing Yi Quan Year(s): 15
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Rep Power: 38 | | | I heard a little proverb saying that for taiji you can be in the class for 10 years and not be able to defend yourself. With hsing I you can kill in 1.
Or something to that effect. |
June 22nd, 2002, 01:13 AM
|  | Banned | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the suburbs of Bannville Year(s): 10 years
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Rep Power: 0 | | | I don't know about that, who wrote it |
June 22nd, 2002, 05:41 AM
| | Retired from active duty. | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom Style(s): Xing Yi Quan Year(s): 15
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Rep Power: 38 | | | some funky chinese geeza. I saw it in a book i've got somewhere.. |
June 24th, 2002, 04:59 AM
| | Dragon's List Allumni | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta, Ga Year(s): 13
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Rep Power: 69 | | | I don't know about either of those. IF you were gifted AND you trained all day, MAYBE in a year you could have that striking power.........IF you were a slow student AND you didn't train alot (or have a decent teacher) it might take you ten years to be able to fight. Too many variables involved. Hsing I at high level takes a little time! A serious student of Tai Chi with a good teacher can have some skill in 2 or 3 years. |
June 27th, 2002, 10:50 AM
| | Retired from active duty. | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom Style(s): Xing Yi Quan Year(s): 15
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Rep Power: 38 | | I dunno. As far as hsing i goes, theres only the basics (5 elements) which are absolutely necessary for learning..the animals are just..well...fluff - combinations to put the elements into practice
You could learn the 5 elements in no time at all, spending the remainder just practicing  |
June 27th, 2002, 11:20 AM
|  | just some guy | | Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: England Year(s): some
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Rep Power: 30 | | | its not the picking up the external form - it is the practising that counts.
OK, so there is less to "pick up" for HsingI. But only if you think about it in a certain (incorrect) way.
The internal prciniples remain the same ... and it is these that count Reason why most TaiJi people take longer to learn how to apply the art (if ever) is they spend too much time wrapped up in the form - the fluff of the external movement - and not enough time incorporating the principles, building them into themselves viscerally. It is a different way of thinking about what you are doing - hence a different way of practising.
RT
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June 27th, 2002, 11:47 AM
| | Dragon's List Allumni | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta, Ga Year(s): 13
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Rep Power: 69 | | | Exactly RobT, exactly right. Li Xiao Long, some schools of Xing Yi focus on the 5 elements, but actually, some schools forcus on the animals and see them as the most important part of training. |
June 27th, 2002, 02:00 PM
| | Dystopian Philantropist | | Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Denmark Year(s): not long enough
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Rep Power: 8 | | | harder than expected, but good....
The 5 elements is not just something you "pick up" right away...they are so much deeper than just five different ways of striking. They are separate principles that can either "flow" into the next, or alternatively, "destroy" your opponent's element. They are five entirely different principles that must be understood. I am still just starting out, and I am not expecting to "fa-jing" any day now (I'm still trying to do the whole "sung" thing and I am getting pretty succesfull at that, it is always nice to have progress however small ). The good thing about the five seperate elemental forms, is that they have incredibly obvious strikes, that you could use right away. (I cringe at stepping into an advancing opponent with a BengQuan). These five elements bring five entirely different mindsets, and I have heard that the animals are nuancés of these mindsets...overal I believe the name XinYiQuan to be very fitting.
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June 27th, 2002, 10:42 PM
| | Dragon's List Allumni | | Join Date: May 2002 Location: Atlanta, Ga Year(s): 13
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Rep Power: 69 | | | True dat homie, but like I said, a few styles of Xing Yi do focus more on the animals (but they are not as popular in the U.S.) |
June 28th, 2002, 11:04 AM
| | Retired from active duty. | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom Style(s): Xing Yi Quan Year(s): 15
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Rep Power: 38 | | Well, I dont know much of hsing I (which is why im getting the missus to do it first - testing the water so to speak  )
Sure enough, the movements are the easiest to pick up, and the internalising is the hard stuff..but hey - the problem in taijiquan is that most of the power puff girls out there just do it for health benefits, which is such a p!sser to me who's got all this energy and wants to beat the 7 bells out of my training partner...this leads to people becoming content because they just know the 'moves'.
at least hsing i is good for that <-the fighting bit, but couldnt find a place to put into sentence |
June 28th, 2002, 11:10 AM
| | just some guy | | Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: England Year(s): some
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Rep Power: 30 | | | HsingYi people spend a lot of time practiscing 5 energies/ movements/ feelings (even the 12 animal types)
TaiJi people _ought_ to be doing the same with TaiJi's natural correlate: the energies of Peng, Lu, Ji, An etc.
Somehow many TaiJi players forget this - even the ones that aren't just health flower rainbow people.
RT
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June 28th, 2002, 11:29 AM
| | Retired from active duty. | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom Style(s): Xing Yi Quan Year(s): 15
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Rep Power: 38 | | Ok, this threads now gonna go slightly off tack..but..
Rob, we both know this is the case, and heck I'd edge my bets to say many other people out there do to, so how can we change current thinking to allow people to practice and study in the manner/way it was originally intended
Sure enough, this could mean a theoretical shake up of the entire martial arts system as we know it (by having standardised means of judging the quality of someones teaching)
If we know 'they' are doing it wrong, how can we tell/show them how to do it right | |
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