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January 28th, 2004, 04:50 PM
|  | Retired from active duty.   | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom Style(s): Xing Yi Quan Year(s): 15
Posts: 2,525
Rep Power: 38 | |  Teaching someone to fight
So here it is.
You're in your dogs-bolx class with yer whoop-ass teacher, and then theres him. It. The thing in the corner that has difficulty even walking.
It learns the moves, it does the forms, it tries to do 5 element fighting, but you can see that it is so alien to it that even breathing looks like an effort.
You casually talk to it, hoping for that brief glimmer of hope that says it's worth trying to improve, but alas it just doesnt work.
Later in the pub, you're chatting and you find out that the reason why everything is so alien is because prior to this super whoop-ass class it had never done any form of fighting, not even school yard. So the reason you believe, is that even though it is learning a decent art, with a decent set of funky moves to pull off, it just cant do it since it doesnt have the rudimentary skills of body placement in regards to the opponent.
So, how do you teach it to fight Recommendations have been so far to do such things as join a class such as TKD or karate (ignoring the fact it may be pants) to learn how to spar and get confident with distances etc. Others suggest boxing, others suggest just getting smacked down.
Who's right  |
January 28th, 2004, 04:54 PM
|  | "Pardon Me"  | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edmonton Style(s): Eight Shadows Fist. Year(s): 5
Posts: 1,983
Rep Power: 48 | | | Just getting smacked down seems to work for me.
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January 28th, 2004, 05:00 PM
| | Retired from active duty. | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sheffield, United Kingdom Style(s): Xing Yi Quan Year(s): 15
Posts: 2,525
Rep Power: 38 | | | bbb...but your a girl..
surely getting the smackdown from some big gorilla would put you off |
January 28th, 2004, 05:01 PM
|  | Venerable Student | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: Washington in the North East of England Style(s): Wado Ryu Karate/Wing Chun Year(s): 21 years
Posts: 974
Rep Power: 16 | | | All of them could be right depending on the individual. I suppose you need to judge where would be best for them to learn basic skills depending on the person.
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The best form of defence is attack!! |
January 28th, 2004, 05:13 PM
|  | Dragon's List Allumni | | Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Greensboro, NC Style(s): Kung Fu & Stuff Year(s): Since 1989
Posts: 6,320
Rep Power: 111 | | | Question: What if there was no motivation to fight
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"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
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January 28th, 2004, 05:56 PM
|  | Beginner | | Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Sweden Style(s): WC
Posts: 5
Rep Power: 0 | | Sparring should help, perhaps combined with a few smackdowns. 
On the serious side, it should eventually give the person in question some idea of how to hit and how to avoid getting hit. When a certain move might work and when it's a bad idea to try that move.
Last edited by Alive; January 28th, 2004 at 05:58 PM.
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January 28th, 2004, 06:38 PM
|  | Venerable Student | | Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dominican Republic Style(s): Hsing Yi, Xinyi Liuhe Year(s): 10 years
Posts: 107
Rep Power: 8 | | | Plenty of two person drills, and applications (And I mean, A LOT). Increase speed and intention as the person feels confident. This is gonna take some time, but it works. The student needs to get used to the drills.
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Aja
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January 29th, 2004, 12:46 AM
| | "Pardon Me" | | Join Date: May 2003 Location: Edmonton Style(s): Eight Shadows Fist. Year(s): 5
Posts: 1,983
Rep Power: 48 | | | “ | Originally posted by li xiao long
bbb...but your a girl..
surely getting the smackdown from some big gorilla would put you off | ” | |
It makes me Mad as a hatter of course!! ...or is it had as a matter of course
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"I say, if you want to find out where the road goes, get in the fast lane and hit the gas." Calvin and Hobbes
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January 29th, 2004, 01:25 AM
|  | Banned | | Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: In the suburbs of Bannville Year(s): 10 years
Posts: 1,975
Rep Power: 0 | | | “ | Originally posted by WraithAlcon
Question: What if there was no motivation to fight | ” | |
Who needs motivation. One of my favorite phrases is,"I don't need a reason to fight you, I need a reason to like you"
But really, if they have zero fight experience, all the better. That means they have no bad habits, and no foolish ego to verify the bad habits they have. And rome wasen't built in a day, and neither are Gorrillaz. And after you feel like he/she is ready, you get them a scrub for them to go live with, that way if they do get dusted it would be competivie, and they would not be discouraged |
January 29th, 2004, 04:29 AM
|  | Long-Haired Sword Guy | | Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Bonn, Germany Style(s): Historical Fencing, Taiji Year(s): decade1
Posts: 1,324
Rep Power: 29 | | LXL, sounds like you have the dauntingl task of restoring the movement apparatus first before you can do anything advanced like 2 person sets or so...
- Show how moves are developed from simply walking, jumping, grabbing, throwing and turning.
- Blinfold it when doin forms practice.
-Let it hear music whith freestyle-tag-fighting
-Let it train drunk 
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Erschrickstu gern /
Keyn Fechten lern.
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January 29th, 2004, 07:47 AM
|  | Junior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wooster, Ohio Year(s): 20
Posts: 37
Rep Power: 0 | | | Here's what I would do
I would put them in to a horse stance and have them learn to cultivate energy first, then I would move them onto san ti until they could learn to cultivate in that stance as well. Without the ability to cultivate the energy, the techniques are near worthless anyway.
Marty
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January 29th, 2004, 10:27 AM
|  | Fear is the Mind Killer | | Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MA Style(s): Long Men Jia Quan Year(s): 27
Posts: 4,983
Rep Power: 81 | | | I have been in thsi situation, actually I am still. I have two teenage brothers who for all intents and purposes appear to have spent the better part of their 15 years in front of the TV/computer.
No muscle tone, or basic gross motor control. Cultivating energy is the least of concerns at the moment. Becasue they cannot move or root. So they are holding stances, holding the pushup position (yoga), some plyometrics for power.
Learning our basic form but doing more foot work and paterns than anything else. When they don't have to think about stepping into a crossed stance anymore and don't loose balance(axis) everytime they turn then they can have more.
For us we teach evasion first as a rule for self defense. How to move/get away/deflect/ disolve. Mobility is key to victory.
You have to build from the ground up. If he cant move with intent and stay connected well, especially in XingYi, there is not going to be anything in his hands when he needs it. Don't worry about the need to fight right now. Lay the foundation.
It constantly amazes me how hard some of the things we teach are to do. Really, we take it for granted.
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One hit, see blood.
It's not enough to just not get hit |
January 29th, 2004, 12:03 PM
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Wooster, Ohio Year(s): 20
Posts: 37
Rep Power: 0 | |  PaiLumUmar
I was responding to this part of the original post:
<It learns the moves, it does the forms, it tries to do 5 element fighting, but you can see that it is so alien to it that even breathing looks like an effort.>
When this person is able to cultivate some energy then they will be able to bring the forms into part of their being and it won't be alien.
Mobility is a key, but not THE key.
Marty
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January 29th, 2004, 12:24 PM
| | Fear is the Mind Killer | | Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MA Style(s): Long Men Jia Quan Year(s): 27
Posts: 4,983
Rep Power: 81 | | | You are right Winchunner.
Like I said there wont be anything in the hands if theres nothing in the legs.
The energy is somthing a begginer wont grasp anyway, you just start them on that path.
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One hit, see blood.
It's not enough to just not get hit |
January 29th, 2004, 02:46 PM
|  | Super Moderator     | | Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Z.O.D. Style(s): Hardcore
Posts: 21,438
Rep Power: 100 | | hmmm...
that's a toughy...
I was once a pathetic, weak and frightened thingy...
sitting behind a computer toooooo f-ing much..
my first MA teachers couldn't change that, although I really wanted it...
until I met this dude who wanted to break me with training
but he didn't...
I came back
every training, no matter how bruished I was...
no matter if I was ill, I even trained after he broke my thumb...
we trained in the rain, sun and snow...
I got hard....
I got strong...
nowadays people who knew me are surprised..
*if* they recognise me at all....
people who don't know me..
fear me...
so...
the key might be
how much is this thingy wanting to put into his practise
ahhhhhhhh.....
push it...
push it real good...
Chief108
__________________ | “ | Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close. | ” | |
all hail Martyr Fakka  | |
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