animals in xing yi

In our Turtle your opponent should feel like they are constantly running/stumbling into your blows - whenever they move there you are just in their way and.... BAM!

It's got a lot of subtle defensive movements.

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So you have Tuo as crocodile and Turtle as something else, wouldnt that make 13 animal forms in your xingyi

Thats new to me, but hey, i guess one learns something new every day.
Thumbs up.

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Yes it does - well spotted!

Although we count Bear and Eagle as one animal - an eagle. The 'Bear-Eagle' being a bird indigenous to China and Japan (where it's called the Bear-Eagle Hawk). It's an eagle that gets its name from it's bear like characteristics of taking prey on the ground, where it fights prey to the death in a very rounded, close range, 'bear-like' way.

So, in that sense we still have only 12 animals.

Incidentally - you can view the Bear and the Eagle as two animals linked together as a 'harmonious fist' (Hei Quan) or as one animal with characteristics of both - neither approach precludes the other and neither is the only way of doing it.

The only reason we have Turtle is because our XingYi comes from 3 different Masters - one of whom had the Turtle as one of their animals. The other two didn't. Various XingYi lineages have different animals - for instance I've heard of one lineage that has a Crane, which is actually a Crane, not a mistranslation of one of the more common birds like Tai bird, etc...

I think the way it works is like this: Animals get added by Masters through observation of their fighting characteristics in the wild. If the Master is good enough and the Xing they have added is effective then it gets added to their system/lineage.

For instance, I think (although I doubt it could ever be proved) that Crocodile and Tai Bird were added by Gou Yun Shen to his lineage - before that his system had 10 animals, like the Henan (Xin Yi) styles.

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Erm, I'd like to correct Graham on the eagle thingy

In the west its classified as the "mountain hawk" eagle, though latin name is Spizaetus nipalensis. Its called the bear eagle in China and surrounding regions, hence the name.

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Ah, I see the confusion:

When I mentioned the hawk I was referring to Japan, not China, where it is classified as a Hawk not an Eagle. In China it's an Eagle.

In the West we sit on the fence and call it "Mountain Hawk-Eagle"

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Tuo and Tai were added by Li Luoneng, as well as the basic linked forms, and the basic two-men forms. From that moment on, all lineages created their own forms (Che Style Xingyi has the biggest number of two-man forms i've ever seen).

And the part of the Bear Eagle is new to me! In all my years of research I never heard of that approach. It is true that you learn something new everyday.

I'll get in touch with my contacts in China to see if I can find more about this, because it's really interesting.

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Aja

Hey Felipe,

If you want to find out more about Spizaetus Nipalensis (the Bear Eagle) then you need (excuse shameless plug, but I get no money from this ;D ) the Bear Eagle book!

http://www.yokiyusan.org/newxingyi/xybebk.html

It's good to bear (excuse the pun) in mind that, like I said, you can view it as two animals or as one - both equally valid approaches.

The 'one animal' approach does answer the question of just why Bear and Eagle are usually found combined together (as a 'harmonious fist') into one link/Xing in most XingYi systems...

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So if you guys add the Bear and the Eagle, as individual forms/animals with individual principles, you guys have....15 animal xingyi!

I wonder how many pages would that book have, since you managed to pump 200 on Bear/eagle alone.

Very interesting stuff. Keep up the good work.

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...someone yells stop, goes limp, taps out.....fight is over....

LOL...good pun, bro.

Yes, you can see them as one or two animals. In Shanxi systems, the eagle and bear are always separate.

The connection between eagle and bear is not unique. Each animal has its complement with another. But this is a part that has been forgotten in XY circles, and it's necessary to go to earlier sources to find which animal connects with the other, which is frustating at times.

For example, I know that Dragon and Tiger form a link, as well as the Tou and Tai (Maybe that's why the forms were invented in pairs). But I don't know the links of the other animals. It's a very interesting subject, but hard to find anywhere...maybe a lost (or not so popular) knowledge.

The Bear Eagle thing is very interesting. I'm very interested to know more. I'll have to buy the book when I take a re$t and feel $tronger (Did you get my subliminal message )

Thanks for the info

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Aja

Hey Felipe -

Don't look at me bro - I didn't set the price! I can tell you it's well worth it though. Still haven't seen the finished thing in print myself yet!

I don't know about any other animal pairings, but I think Bear and Eagle have a more fundamental relationship either way. Our animals go from Tiger into Dragon, and there's a linking move that is half and half between both of them - like a low Dragon Pi, but with a bit of a Tiger snarl to it! That's where the connection ends as far as I know, but I could be wrong - there's a lot (a LOT) of stuff I haven't covered yet, and it could be in there. I'll let you know in 20 years or so

Jose - that would be 13 animals dude! Check your math! Anyway - I'm sure he could easily have filled another 200 pages on Bear Eagle alone without repeating anything! Talk about depth...

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the eagle thats called bear, the bear, and the eagle.
unless of course someone allong the way cut the eagle thats called bear in half. hehe
ok.

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...someone yells stop, goes limp, taps out.....fight is over....

Joseph:

They don't have an eagle or a bear. They just have a Bear Eagle form. That's 13

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Aja

Got my logics screwed up got it.

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...someone yells stop, goes limp, taps out.....fight is over....

Yea one of the reasons we stopped putting more material into the book was that we thought it'd never get finished and that the production price would be so high that no one would buy the book..

I cant see anyone paying £100 for it, or $250 for you Americans...

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Hey felipe if you're interested more about the animal info, can I suggest you buy the book It'll have all your answers since the research is not only from the MA perspective but also a biological/ecological perspective also :P

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