Is there a complit Chinese system??

“	Originally Posted By: Robin Ashe You should have tried reading some previous posts and threads in this forum then and would have saved yourself some embarrasment instead of now having to cop out.	”

you might get embarrased if you said that but im not. Im not copping out for ****.

I would expect that a MMA person like yourself and Cam would flame up at a "is there a complete CMA system" forum.

take a deep breathe Robin. We got plenty of time to listen to others opinions about styles, systems and mechanics. If youve got facts then debate. If you haven't then don't tell everyone whats what.

I was asking cam in an in polite way to stop raggin on others comments. If he was just going to come at us with a little bit of TKD behind him then is wasn't going to buy any of his comments however he has told me a little bit about himself and I am happy to continue his debates.

Cam knows this and doesn't need you to keep his back. I am sure he is a big boy, hey even world champ. If cam was pissed or was truely offended than he wouldn't have replied.

“	Cam, you have a lot of experience. Don't know if you a master of martial arts. big call.	”

Never said I was.

“	there is a lot more to MA than stepping in a ring.	”

Funny that most all the MAists that say that are the ones who have never stepped in the ring. But I have to agree with you... there is more to MA than stepping into a ring, but the experience one gets and the truth one finds in the ring is the most important part. That's why they're called "martial" arts.

“	Also, not being able to do one style for a long period of time really only allows the instructor to teach you the basics.	”

Luckily I am intelligent enough and the guys I trained with were intelligent enough to know that was all I needed and they had the ability to impart that knowledge to me. Everything begins and ends the basics. The fundamental principles that make everything work. I don't have to spend years learning a lot of fluff to know that I didn't need to learn it. A kick is a kick, a punch is a punch, the mechanics and principles are the same from style to style and either the mechanics of a system are sound or they are flawed. If the mechanics of a style are sound, I learn as much about them as I can and then compare them to the mechanics I already know. If a style is built upon flawed principles, I choose not to pursue that system any further. That aptitude of being able to recognize the difference has saved me a lot of wasted time and effort over the years.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

“	Originally Posted By: darkhorse Cam, You have probably posted this before however, can you please advise what MA experience you have. I know you said TKD which I am sure puts you right up there as a fighter. You have also probably done a ton of CMA as you seem to be able to comment on most styles and systems. Are you a jack of all trades and master of none Let see if you can dodge this question. Go on, give us specifics about where you train, web site so we can verify your attendance, etc etc. My money is on the fact that you don't know squat. Which is ok. But just don't go bagging anyone out as if you know it all.	”

I think this counts as an a-hole question.

“	Originally Posted By: darkhorse you might get embarrased if you said that but im not. Im not copping out for ****. I would expect that a MMA person like yourself and Cam would flame up at a "is there a complete CMA system" forum.	”

What Did you even read the whole thread I just made a joke about chines language at the beginning, there's no flaming.

“	take a deep breathe Robin. We got plenty of time to listen to others opinions about styles, systems and mechanics. If youve got facts then debate. If you haven't then don't tell everyone whats what.	”

I do have facts, it's not my problem if you can't recognise them.

“	I was asking cam in an in polite way to stop raggin on others comments. If he was just going to come at us with a little bit of TKD behind him then is wasn't going to buy any of his comments however he has told me a little bit about himself and I am happy to continue his debates.	”

You just can't read then can you - it's pretty bloody clear that he doesn't just have a bit of TKD behind him.

“	Cam knows this and doesn't need you to keep his back. I am sure he is a big boy, hey even world champ. If cam was pissed or was truely offended than he wouldn't have replied.	”

You're saying I'm trying to keep his back and you're trying to speak for him now WTF are you on

“	Originally Posted By: XVampireX But i dont really care, i beat my karate teacher	”

Maybe you can get your money back.

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara Do any of you watch the TV show COPS How many times have you seen them use those fancy wristlocks to try and subdue an attacker 99% of those instances wind up on the ground with the perp fighting back and it usually takes 3 or 4 cops to finally control the guy. This tells us 2 things... 1.) Fights WILL go to the ground. 2.) Standing wrist locks are worthless.	”

Disagreed. Cops are trying to subdue perps with as little risk to injuring them as possible hence, the need for 4 cops to subdue one guy. Ohterwise, ONE cop could just bash the perp over the head with his club. Cops take people to the ground so they cant run away. Standing wristlocks are FANTASTICALLY effective, that is if you know how to apply them (ahem). Cops let those wrist locks go so they don't break the perps wrist so as to avoid lawsuits and suspension.

“	What is it you seem to be not understanding All MMA is is those other arts mixed together. The whole is better than the sum of its parts. You can eat eggs, or eat flour, or eat butter and sugar, and you may enjoy them, but it's a whole lot more palatable if you mix them together and make a cake.	”

That's a great way to put it, but the problem is that the current MMA crowd aren't the first gourmet chefs... And modern day MMA ain't the first cake, either.

“	People seem to misundrstand and think that MMA involves something far removed from traditional arts. Not so. It is simply a combining of already existing traditional aspects and practices, discarding the less effective and outdated techniques found in these arts and then streamlining them into a highly effective, high percentage skill set.	”

It's been done before the current MMA "revolution". As Vampire mentioned Xingyi is one such example. Don't cut yourself on your doubts just because you don't know or understand what Xingyi is (which you have already admitted to).

Maybe if you trained more instead of watching COPS.... oh never mind

Gee, Quai, I TEACH XingYi and I was training with Cam TONIGHT...............I also teach Yang Tai Chi and some external northern stuff, and I find Cam to be very open minded to new techniques and strategies, SO LONG AS you can prove their value, which I find fairly scientific and not threatening to serious martial artists. Yes, I CAN USE MY XINGYI AND TAICHI against people who try to grapple me, but that's because I can grapple and have some experience in what the other side is doing. You guys should just stop getting huffy and get over the fact that it wouldn't kill you to learn a little ground fighting and test your skills with some competitive fighters, I have found that doing so has done nothing but improve my understanding and the ability to use my mother arts (XingYi/TaiChi).

Folks, NO martial art is perfect or complete, if you think so, then you are being dogmatic and going against the grain of the Tao AND the philosophies of the great masters who created so many of these fine traditional arts.

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"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

I trained with Storm tonight, and now my face is different colors.

That is all.

“	Cops are trying to subdue perps with as little risk to injuring them as possible hence, the need for 4 cops to subdue one guy.	”

Then why does one guy even try on his own to begin with Why doesn't he wait until there is backup What if backup never arrives

“	Ohterwise, ONE cop could just bash the perp over the head with his club.	”

That's just not true, either. Reason being... 1.) After the perp starts fighting back, the cop has the right to hit him with a club. 2.) In most cases, after 4 cops have wrestled the guy to the ground, they hit him with a club anyway.

“	Cops let those wrist locks go so they don't break the perps wrist so as to avoid lawsuits and suspension.	”

Ummm... no. They let the wrist locks go because the perp is trying to punch them in the face. Of all the cops I know they will tell you that ground fighting is the way to go... why Because 90% of all their altercations go to the ground. The cops I know also all say that the standing wristlock junk they have learned is worthless. The say they work great against a passive perp but against someone fighting back, not a chance. We have a combatives guy that stops by the gym occasionally and plays around with us, his name is Shane Holley. He teaches seminars for law enforcement, etc... He says that it's his opinion that all of those guys should come spend at least 6 months doing what we do to give them a better idea of what works and what doesn't work against what they go up against.

Also, on a side not but of interest...

The military has instituted a new mandatory program for combatives. Blue, who posts here, told me about this. He is an MP in the air force and it has been mandated that they go through the army combatives training. Anyone wanna guess what that is Brazillian Jiu Jitsu. Interesting, huh Makes you wonder about all those remarks like "grappling doesn't work if the opponent is really trying to hurt you" and "fights don't go to the ground". It's amazing to think that they are requiring our soldiers to learn a system that is ineffective and that they will never be able to use. Actually, I think they've done the research and looked at the results of years of testing and came to the conclusions that fights DO go to the ground and that grappling is the best way to deal with that, especially if the opponent is intent on hurting you.

“	That's a great way to put it, but the problem is that the current MMA crowd aren't the first gourmet chefs... And modern day MMA ain't the first cake, either.	”

I agree, not the first, but first does not mean best. They are the 5 star chefs making a damn good cake. Results don't lie.

“	It's been done before the current MMA "revolution".	”

Not to the degree it is now, or not that anyone can trace. If it had been there would be less dogma in traditional arts.

“	Don't cut yourself on your doubts just because you don't know or understand what Xingyi is (which you have already admitted to).	”

I have the perfect line and resource into Xingyi... StormMountain. I have never seen him do a whole lot that I "don't understand" and any questions I have he answers readily.

“	Maybe if you trained more instead of watching COPS.... oh never mind	”

Maybe if you fought more than playing Dungeons and Dragons in the local comic shop....

“	Yes, I CAN USE MY XINGYI AND TAICHI against people who try to grapple me, but that's because I can grapple and have some experience in what the other side is doing.	”

That is the trick, right there. After learning to grapple I went back and re-evaluated everything I knew about the other arts I had studied (mostly striking oriented). It gave me a whole new perspective on things and I was able to see new strengths, new weaknesses, learn what does work and what doesn't work and to cut away all the fat and put it all together. Of cousre it wasn't as simple as learning the grappling techniques and principles, it required a lot of hands on experience and trial and error and getting in there and mixing it up with as many different styles and people as possible.

“	You guys should just stop getting huffy and get over the fact that it wouldn't kill you to learn a little ground fighting and test your skills with some competitive fighters, I have found that doing so has done nothing but improve my understanding and the ability to use my mother arts (XingYi/TaiChi).	”

Storm has chi blasted the correct.

“	Folks, NO martial art is perfect or complete, if you think so, then you are being dogmatic and going against the grain of the Tao AND the philosophies of the great masters who created so many of these fine traditional arts.	”

And then turned around and keylocked it. Appears to be a well rounded martial artist to me....

“	I trained with Storm tonight, and now my face is different colors.	”

I, however, did not train with Storm tonight because I have a fight in 2 weeks and cannot afford to get injured!!!!! When he first came to train with us it was fun to roll with him... now it's like hard work and torture!!!

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

“	Originally Posted By: XVampireX Dan - when you say "martial development in the styles used for mma" what do you mean MMA in general is mixed martial arts, and saying you did styles used FOR mma is like saying MMA is a style, which is not a valid statement.	”

Any combination of martial arts or fighting systems is MMA i was just giving examples of what i use prior to the military or kung fu. I think alot of us would appreciate it if you COULD show us a demonstration of your skill. perhaps your old teacher would like a rematch if not maybe just an example of your tameshiwari. I know id like to see the 16 year old phenom who defeated a kyokushin teacher in action, especially since I have been so intreagued by your martial knowledge thus far; as im sure we all have

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After your movements are very correct, then the teacher can discuss why they are the way they are. First achieve precision in movement.

I'm down...

I'd like to see a rematch with the karate teacher. If that can't happen, I have a 17 year old student that will fight him. My manager can fly him to GA for his next event. Vampire, see if mommy will let you come to America to fight...

Peace-
Cam

__________________
Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara I'm down... I'd like to see a rematch with the karate teacher. If that can't happen, I have a 17 year old student that will fight him. My manager can fly him to GA for his next event. Vampire, see if mommy will let you come to America to fight... Peace- Cam	”

hahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

NOW we're talking!!!!!!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

oh man....
martial arts discussionboards are WEIRD places...

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

Lugaldamhara... I can go wherever i want, the only problem is the money, if you head wouldnt be so ignorant you would understand that israel currently has economy problems. GO **** YOURSELF CHIEF!

Ya'll got an airport
My manager will foot the bill for you to fly over. Won't cost you a dime... or rupee or whatever ya'll use... Send me some contact info and we'll get it set up.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."