Xing Yi Fighting

Well hey... What do you people think of Lei Tai fighting Maybe you got some clips to share

“	Originally Posted By: chris_davis01 Pai, Yeh i see what you mean, but like i said the power generation principles, the movements and the tactics are different. I dont practice wing chun but have sparred with guys that have. It is a very different sort of power output. yeh Intent is the driving force - i was trying to describe it in terms of technique -	”

how is the power different please explain if possible. i do WC and in that we use the body to strike through. would love to know more.

secondly,, intent can you explain. In WC we have forward force which is mind intent. at all times we have the intent to strike through.. if there is something in teh way then we will usally redirect. if it is kinda week force being thrown ie ligher round horse or straight punch then we would just aim for the centre and strike...at first you will hit the oncoming force but because your body is behind it you will continue to strike through.

which leads to finally,

if you in XY just go stright through. what if there is a something obstructing your strike do you redirect or just move onto the next strike

Driving force in xing yi from what i can see is more complicated of Wing Chuns... It seems that you FORCE your opponent to be opened.

*woop woop wup wup wup wup wup* In my Wing Chun , if something isn't working, try something else.

Interesting post. How do you think a Choy Lay Fut fighter should play against a Xing-Yi player?

Xing-Yi sounds actually quite similar in its theories of attacking. . . . e.g. running your opponent over by relentlessly attacking them.

I'm thinking it's going to turn into a total slugfest, but whatever I don't do Xing-Yi so I wouldn't know.

Thanks,

Infraz

As Chris Davis01 Points Out, The Xing Yi Practioner Can Be Identified By His Approach To A Confrontation. Xingy Yi Is Designed, Once An Attack Has Been Initiated,be It By You Or Your Opponent,to Run Your Opponent Over Like Mack Truck. Whether Your Opponent Is A Skilled Martial Artists Or Seasoned Thug, It Is Your Intention And The Devoted Will To See That Intention Through That Helps To Determine The Outcome . Of Course None Of This Matters If Your Opponent Is Better At Throwing Wild Punches Than You Are At Xing Yi. A Xing Yi Fighter, Not Unlike Other Styles, Works The Angles Of His Opponent. However, These Angles Are Worked From Mid To Close Ranges While All Ways Pressing Your Opponent Until He Is Completely Subdued.

Easier said than done.

Still looking for a Xing Yi guy to spar with . . . . . .

__________________

“	Originally Posted By: KungFuMan I also learned a praying mantis fist style from watching the actual insect itself. This was before I actually learned some seven star mantis.	”

I have to disagree with the general jist of the posts here reguarding xingyiquan. The main difference between xingyiquan and wc and say kickboxing is that xingyiquan uses whole body power. We also use concepts such as sticking to the opponent to control their limbs, angular and straight advancing turning AND retreating footwork, and circular movements which can be very direct. In xingyi there should be generally smaller motions and angles of attack than in external ma. There is an economy of motion that adheres to principals of whole body power and structure which gives advantages in speed/timing/power/and energy expended which is all generalized under the term shen fa or body method. Other martial arts use their own kind of body method, but the body method of xingyi is distinctly based on expansion and contraction of the body and stepping. Other arts will have a different outlook on their priorities and body methods.
J

As someone that has trained in both Xing Yi and Muay Thai, I will have to disagree that XY is differentiated by using whole body power. Any martial art worth learning (or any athletic movement, for that matter) uses whole body power.

Any punch, whether it's a jab, uppercut, cross, etc. uses your whole body. Your feet move when you punch, and so do your hands, and everything in between. How is that not whole body power? Punches are an example how even seemingly small movements (elbows also included) involve the whole body, so I'm not going to discuss knees or kicks.

In some cases I also have to disagree with the above claim with economy of motion. A strike such as Pi Chuan or Heng Chuan takes much longer to complete than a simple right cross - a move that my former instructor has admitted is probably the most powerful strike in martial arts.

Of course I'm referring to delivering strikes from San Ti - I know some schools do adopt a boxing stance for use when in a real-life situation.

Didn't clarify, but the instructor I was speaking of is a XY instructor. Just so nobody thinks I'm going off of an instructor's bias towards their own art.

Well, I've not studied muay thai myself, but some of my classmates and previous opponents have. Of course there are examples of whole body power in muay thai, but it's completely different from xingyiquan in it's qualities. Xingyiquan uses a different archetype of whole body power than muay thai. In muay thai or other external martial arts there can be be whole body power, but it's only at the peak of a movement. Xingyi uses a much more consistent whole body power, and has a different view of how this is developed and used.

As for economy of motion well, a right cross is fine, and we have them in our xingyi i.e. in zuan quan and in ma xing for a couple. But it's always done with xingyi shen fa which means there is equal power in all parts, and they all move as one. This is decisively different from muay thai movement and power generation where body parts are moved sequencially. This kind of movement naturally leads to economy of motion and therefore greater speed and power. If there is little or no wasted energy than the force is all delivered in a highly efficient manner. That is a fundamental goal of xingyiquan. Perhaps it is in muay thai too, but I think that muay thai relies more on strength, and athleticism which eventually will decline with age. My forebears in bagua and xingyi are well known to be able to fight well into middle and old age, whereas muay thai fighters are known to retire often in there teens and early twenties. I think the chinese just have it figured out better.
J

Doesn't xingyi also recycle the energy used to move forward in to the blow ( punch, kick,ect...) exp. when taking that sliding step forward, the energy of the movement is converted in to the punch, or bouncing energy off the ground (root) to the attack and aim said attack pass the impact point. So a punch in the gut is more aimed at poping your spleen. ( in a manner of speaking.

pretty much every martial art aims at striking through a target... very few strikes are superficial.

i'd like to continue the economy of motion discussion but unfortunately i'm still at work at 9pm and want to get the F outta here. so that will have to wait until tomorrow.

i believe all athletic movements (martial or non-) reach maximum power at their peak, right at terminal velocity. i'm certainly not a physicist, so i could be wrong here.

also, even though there are several variations, tsuan chuan as i learned in the past doesn't even come close to a proper right cross. drilling fist is used more as a surprise attack or an opener of sorts.

There is much more to zuan quan than you have been shown then. It's not just a wedge or an uppercut. There is also the outside circle of what ends up being the lower hand in the end of the form. This can be applied as a cross. In internal martial arts there is always two hands power. Both hands are working and are equally important.
Also there should be power throughout each part of every movement in xingyiquan. I think that this actually is more of a bagua thing that we have incorporated into our xingyi. There is still a peak of an attack, but if the attack is preempted, it should have the power to change through any defense.
J