Old Kung Fu Teachers: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly?

A friend of mine pointed something out the other day that kinda screwed with my perception of things. He is very interested in the history of Kung Fu and martial arts, as well as the biography of various teachers and styles. One thing he brought to my attention was that the Kung Fu people of old were not nice people...

What it boiled down to was that many of those great masters were sociopaths. They killed for pleasure, ego, or to simply test their skill. On top of that they demonstrated other characteristics that modern teachers "claim" that martial arts training protects against.

He told me one story of a master who sent his student to a brothel to...well...take care of his business, and then forbid him from paying. When confronted by the hired muscle he was to maim/kill as many as he could while fleeing.

So what do you all think? Are the fables glamorized and cleaned up to help teach the next generation of students qualities important in modern society? And if we are being deceptive with the truth of our martial arts heritage, is it for the best?

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

Martial arts do attract sociopaths - no doubt about that. that's why students and teachers have to be very careful.

Any signs and you have to watch out.

Sometimes it takes a while for it to show up.

There's definitely a dark side.

That's why I tell anyone I teach, I just help them along. That's because we all suck and some just suck at a higher level.

There are those that think because they have some skills they become experts at everything. Making their students their slaves.

It's not about MA teachers of old being that way - they are around us everyday - even now.

Regardless, there are sociopathic psychiatrist, doctors, business owners, teachers etc.

As a student, you just have to be careful who you associate with - that's all.

Best.

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May the force be with y'all.

“	Originally Posted By: Allan_Tsang It's not about MA teachers of old being that way - they are around us everyday - even now. Regardless, there are sociopathic psychiatrist, doctors, business owners, teachers etc.	”

Absolutely, people dont pay attention to the big picture. Its like the issue with guns or even Dogs for that matter.

Pit Bulls have this reputation and in many states are now Illegal.
Where as if you do a study nationally of dog attacks you'll find they are the minority. They get the most publicity because of the repuation and how, well good they are at doing what they do.

If a Bunch of us Maists went off the deep end for about 5 years people would want to make studying martial arts illegal too.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

Well, first of all, I put no stock at all in these fables of ancient masters. They are simply anecdotes and there is absolutely no foundation as to the veracity of them at all... the good nor the bad. That's why I am quick to write off the "it worked on the battlefield 1000 years ago" and "Master Who Flung Cum defeated an army of 1200 men single handedly" stories with no more than an afterthought. They're simply stories.

BUT----- From real world experience, I know what is more likely and what is not likely. The story you mention above is more likely than the "1000 year old battlefiled" and "the master who defeats 1000 men" stories. Take into consideration what martial arts is. It's about war and kicking ass. It ain't about all that other esoteric superfluous BS that every martial artists that can't fight espouses, regardelss of how bad one wants to buy into the Americanization of Eastern martial arts and the marrying of it with budhist dogma.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

No ways.... so you're telling me the story of One Hung Lo, and Cream of Sum Yung Guy killing 4000 men by themselves is fake?


In all actuality, I'm not one who believes in all that esoteric crap either. To me, at the end of day... it still remains. Can you fight?


As for teachers sending out students and all that stuff, now that's more of a possibility.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

“	Originally Posted By: WraithAlcon He told me one story of a master who sent his student to a brothel to...well...take care of his business, and then forbid him from paying. When confronted by the hired muscle he was to maim/kill as many as he could while fleeing. So what do you all think?	”

Whether he pays or not, he's fvcked!

“	Originally Posted By: PaiLumUmar Pit Bulls have this reputation and in many states are now Illegal. Where as if you do a study nationally of dog attacks you'll find they are the minority. They get the most publicity because of the repuation and how, well good they are at doing what they do.	”

June 4th, a little boy was mauled to death in his own home by a pitbull. Maybe I've been missing all the news reports about Pomeranians killing people. I'm sure Pitbulls are the minority in dog bites. A simple look at the number of pits vs other breeds make this an almost certainty. What breeds are responsible for the most fatalities of humans and other dogs? I'm really curious.

“	Originally Posted By: jawsman No ways.... so you're telling me the story of One Hung Lo, and Cream of Sum Yung Guy killing 4000 men by themselves is fake? In all actuality, I'm not one who believes in all that esoteric crap either. To me, at the end of day... it still remains. Can you fight? As for teachers sending out students and all that stuff, now that's more of a possibility.	”

Just out of curiosity, have any of your Sifus, Senseis, etc. "sent you out" at the risk of humiliation and to test your 'nads?

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare A simple look at the number of pits vs other breeds make this an almost certainty. What breeds are responsible for the most fatalities of humans and other dogs? I'm really curious.	”

Breeds Involved

Pit Bull and Pit-bull-type dogs (21%), Mixed breed dogs (16%),
Rottweilers (13%), German Shepherd Dogs (9%), Wolf Dogs (5%),
Siberian Huskies (5%), Malamutes (4%), Great Danes (3%),
St. Bernards (3%), Chow Chows (3%), Doberman Pinschers (3%),
other breeds & non-specified breeds (15%).


Source..... http://www.fataldogattacks.com/statistics.html



I'm not too sure about the acuracy of these percentages. I thought I heard something like the C0cker Spaniel had the highest percentage of bites. I know, sounds hillarious.

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare Maybe I've been missing all the news reports about Pomeranians killing people. I'm sure Pitbulls are the minority in dog bites.	”

I only laugh because we own a Pomeranian and a Pit Bull. What's funny is that the Pom bosses the Pit around, it's frigin hillarious. Well, that's only because the Pit lets him.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

Maybe you'd get a different listing if you took all attacks and not only fatal ones, because a c0ckerspaniel is more likely to bite you and leave a small wound in arm/leg, then run away then the other dogs listed, who will probably go for the throat at the first bite and not run after delivering it.

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You only die once. But it lasts such a long time.-French proverb

Yeah, I tried looking up stats on attacks only, but they were very inconsistent with one another. Fatal attacks were more closey grouped. Like Pai mentioned, Pits are on top of the fatal list because they're very good at what they do.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

“	Originally Posted By: jawsman Yeah, I tried looking up stats on attacks only, but they were very inconsistent with one another. Fatal attacks were more closey grouped. Like Pai mentioned, Pits are on top of the fatal list because they're very good at what they do.	”

Hence the banning and whatnot.