Learning forms in Traditional Chinese martial arts.

There are many ways to learn forms within CMA. Some are taught the actual form with all the moves ,and then they go back and break down each technique. Others are taught a series of techniques first ,they then drill and work applications of those techniques ,then put them altogether to complete the form.

I have learned and been taught many different ways to teach or learn a form. For me i prefer the method of drilling and applying them ,then putting everything together. But not every method works for everyone ,so that is why there are other methods being used. What i have noticed though is ,that the forms are slowly losing their translation ,no matter what method you use.

By this i mean when i see forms performed these days ,they're done at one pace with little change in flavor throught the movements. By this happening it shows me that people are not teaching,learning,translating or performing forms right. Very few forms in cma are done with the same flavor and power generation throught the entire form. There is usually a tension technique or section in a form where the flavor of the form changes. Wheteher it be the form slows down at that point or you see a ,sudden burst of speed or power.

These sometimes subtle or explovise changes in the form are there for a reason. But if they are being left out whether on purpose or by accident ,they cause a problem in full translation of a form and it's techniques. That now means that some of the techniques in a form used to build certain things ,are now not being done ,thus the person never developes that part of the technique or body that was suppose to be trained.

Forms are a good way to teach a series of many techniques at one time ,but forms do more than that when taught properly. If a form is done right it shows you proper alignment,flavor,technique,application,power generation, and many other things. But when a form is not taught properly ,it can cancel out alot of those things ,and become little more than a dance.

A form done and taught properly is a great way to learn techniques when your teacher is not around. Because it teaches the proper movement,techniques,and flavor. Then after understanding the form inside out ,you then fit the techniques that fit your own flavor and personal style ,into your skill set. Or you make changes to the techniques that fit you or work better for you. A form is not set in stone as something you have to follow technique for technique move for move to fight with.

A form is a guide to show you how to have your techniques flow in movement ,so that you are not choppy in your movements ,but smooth from one to the next. Forms when taught right show you angles of attack and defense. But it is up to each person to disect the forms and find what fits them ,and train them until it is second nature. Many people misunderstand forms and with people teaching forms improperly ,that only leads to more misunderstanding and transfering of bad techniques.

That is why we as students and teachers or hobbiest need to pay close attention to what's being taught,learned or transfered to others. Because those of us that teach lead to students not developing proper technique,power or many other things. Then those of us that are students are not really informed or prepared with real effective techniques or training. Because when you are in a fight to protect yourself or family ,it's not the time to find out ,what you learned was flawed or lacking.

jeff

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I think the problem with the "flavor" of the form is that people simply don't care anymore. If a certain type of power generation is flashy, then that will be used throughout the form. Slowing down is WAY uncool, so you just don't do it. Oh, and of course you're muscles all have to be tense so that the judges give you more points in a competition. That's how most people see it.
Me, I try to do everything correct. I try to slow down, tense, relax, whatever is called for. I don't say that I do get everything down perfectly every time. But at least I try, and get a lot closer than many people ever will.

And this thread just motivated me to go practice my form. But don't worry...I'LL BE BACK... in two minutes or so.

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Good post Jeff. that is very true.

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The problem with forms is that they came to America...land of hurry up and are we there yet

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“	Originally Posted By: aqira The problem with forms is that they came to America...land of hurry up and are we there yet	”

Agreed, but it's also the land of where i can break one form down ,and make it much shorter creating 3-4 more out of the same form ,then charge more money for testing. So many have found a way to milk more money out of less teaching or technique.

jeff

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thanks jeff, probably the time for me to ask my sifu about forms, for a deep understanding...thanks and enjoy

All true. People seem to want the "fast out." Either that or there lazy as hell. A lot of it is also money. Like someone stated above. Lets make this form easy for you to learn and then charge you a boat load of money to take the test, so you can feel like you've accomplished something. Worst thing to do let an American get a hold of it and it will never be the same.

Sheng Hu

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Sheng Hu

DRAGONSOUL

I think it all has to do with how you were taught. If you were taught why each part of the form is as it is, and the speed and application and reason for it and you actually get to understand the form, then most people do it that way. If it all gets taught to you quickly or slowly or with a lot of power or with little power you will do it that way. Its like most things in life. We do as we were taught. If you are taught to pronounce a word one way you will pronounce it that way, and if asked how to say that word you'll teach it the way you heard it. If you are taught a form with different timeing and pauses and emphasis you will teach it that way to the next gen. if that is how you learn and practice it. It also really depends on who is learningit and how much they want to take away. Some people dont care to get the practicality and all of that they just want the look of it.

awesome subject ... I agree with how you learn it and how's it's passed. I could care less about the "flashy" crap as it tends to have no application. The only time I've ever spruced (flashed) up a form is when I went to a specific Tae kwon Do tourn... Not saying anything about the art ... just a specific tourny ... then I dumped the "flashyness" right after.

And screw the money issue. I'd rather have quality in students not high ranks (Dragonsoul made an exellent point). As there is teachers out there that do that. I've seen it and made me wanna puke.

Belts should be earned. No matter how long it takes. I know my belt tests aren't easy at all. It might seem long and "hard" as some others have stated but at least when a student comes out of the test, he/she knows they have earned it. They come away with self satisfaction and confidence (they may wanna crawl into a hole for a few days and throw up but hey, They're stronger for completing it honestly)

Don't wanna get too far off topic sorry (sometimes I ramble) but I totally agree with everyone's opinion. It's nice to see that others look at things the same.

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“	Originally Posted By: Jeff C By this i mean when i see forms performed these days ,they're done at one pace with little change in flavor throught the movements.	”

I'm not quite sure what you meant by this, but that's only because our form is done at one pace. There's no need for speeding things up to show explosiveness. For us, everything remains the same outside of our form. Power generation just means that your hands fly faster, etc.

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Its interesting one of my instructors was talking about this, he was talking about Karate and comparing it to the way he learned it. He commented that there isn't bunkai anymore. That when he learned his karate, he learned only 4 techniques for the first year or so. But he could use those techniques from different angles, right and left, and different situations. I think thats a hard thing to do for anyone, just four techniques. Let alone in a society that loves quick returns.

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the old school teACHING WAS LIKE THat,learn couples of technics and try to masterezing,when your teacher see it good,,go to the next. enjoy

“	Originally Posted By: Dragonsoul All true. People seem to want the "fast out." Either that or there lazy as hell. A lot of it is also money. Like someone stated above. Lets make this form easy for you to learn and then charge you a boat load of money to take the test, so you can feel like you've accomplished something. Worst thing to do let an American get a hold of it and it will never be the same. Sheng Hu	”

I do not think it has to do with americans in general, people often remember the bad teachers, granted they are a lot in USA, but i think as much fault has the guy that picks a bad teacher as the bad teacher teaching wrong tecniques. When you go to a school run by a 20 year old that calls himself grandmaster, or even master one has to act cautios. It has to do with amerian society, and also i have been under strict training i loved it, but some parents cannot bear in mind that their kids will go through all the endurance part, my parents knew what i was getting into so they were ok, but in USA you cannot ask many students to hit a wall or bamboo sticks with the shin. Some training has to be modified and some people do it that are not qualify to do so.

Forms are ver important, they train your body and conditioned it for the moves, so when drill or a fight comes you can do them naturally. It has to be put a lot of emphasis on them i think. The school i know that they have excellent profesors are very poor, i usually o not go to a expensive/fancy USA dojo unless i want to get a black belt in 7 days.