what is missing in MMA....

Fireinthewater/Unk-san:

I also said:

“	He might be referring to overall behavior	”

Maybe he feels that in general, based on his experience, MMA students tend to act with an overall disrespectful attitude. Not just stating at the end of a bout...but in other situations...for instance...on a forum, in a school, in public.

I cant speak for Chief...just stating that some seem to only be interpreting what he said one way.

Personally...i think people are people. No matter what group you are in....there are going to be idiots that give that group a bad rep.

However, that being said...in every subculture there are distinguishable characteristics. I would have to say that most MMA'ers I've personally dealt with were a bit rowdy and had poor behavior. Most TMA'ers I've dealt with were very polite...but may have hated you behind your back.

People can act rowdy and be good people...or act polite and be asses inside.

I dont discriminate...I dont like any particular group I dont care for categories myself. TMA, MMA, whatever A you'd like...it doesnt matter to me, I'll be that.

Just try to be a good person, improve your skill, be respectful and go on about your business.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

People are people, imperfect. One thing I have seen from MMA people is more HONESTY and (get ready for media buzzword) TRANSPARENCY. I have seen martial artists from both traditions be jerks. The difference is, the MMA guy would admit that he was being a JERK, the TMA guy is far more likely to justify his actions with words like honor and such....................................

That being said, these types of martial artists do live in 2 very different CULTURES when it comes to COMMUNICATING with other martial artists, and that causes problems more than anything else. MMA people believe in being very honest in their opinions, TMA people have a much more....uhm..........polite and civil way of expressing things. The reality is, and I know this especially as a Southerner, it's very HARD to be honest AND polite!

__________________
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

“	People can act rowdy and be good people...or act polite and be asses inside.	”

That's real truth. I hope people understand this sentiment....................

__________________
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

x893 and Strom.

(in a surfer voice) NICE!!! (/back to normal voice)

From an obersvational view point... both sub cultures of MA tend to be disrespectful to each other. Of course I am looking at this through my eyes and Aqira made a good point about that today. What I see is a reflection of myself.

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"You're lucky buddhism teaches freedom from desire, because I have the desire to kick your ass!" -Richard Gere- from the Simpsons

I'd like to add however, that being "blunt" and "rude" is often mistaken for honesty as well.

People might be stating their opinions "bluntly/honestly" but that doesnt make it truth per se....I think people forget that most things people say are just their perceptions and opinions, not fact or truth.

And it is very hard to be polite and honestly say what you feel at the same time. You have to really understand yourself and how others perceive you...something everyone can work on.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

“	the humility and respect that TMA offers....	”

I don't see why people are getting so upset about that statement...
It's more or less true. I have actually seen more temper tantrums from TMA guys and I think that within the realms of styles, MMA guys are more respectful to MMA guys than TMA guys are towards TMA guys. The problem with MMA guys is that they do tend to look down on TMA styles/practitioners. The reason is because many TMA schools are simply McDojos taking people's money and instilling false confidence in them while feeding their heads full of esoteric BS. The MMA contingency frowns upon this, as the serious TMA community should also. I know I have no respect for it and the people who perpetuate it along with their myths and disciples that fall down compliantly when struck with the Dim Mak. This kind of horse **** makes all MAs look bad.

MMA respects MMA. I see more of the anti-TMA attitude in the BJJ groups than any others... unfortunately, 98% of all MMA guys train in BJJ in one form or another.

MMA doesn't pretend to teach morals or ethics or instill any intangible character traits such as "respect". People who train in MMA simply want to learn how to handle themselves in a physical confrontation, something that 95% of all TMAs will not teach them to do. The reason behind this is that the TMA schools in question focus more on those intangible characer traits and offer very little in the way of effective self defense technique. People that train in MMA have no real desire to become "martial artists", they seek to become proficient fighters.

I could name a few TMA guys I have known that were real low life human beings with a multitude of problems. 99% of the MMA guys I know are great people.

Another thing I see that MMA is lacking is the gullibility to buy into perpetuated myths about death touches and standing wrist locks and toe kicks... but I think this is a positive thing. Maybe that's why MMA is so efficient.

As far as respect goes, it's earned, not given. I give respect to those that earn it and I don't discriminate toeards "style".

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

Honest, blunt, rude, call it what you will, I just looked up 'acerbic' in the dictionary and the definition read 'Chief108'


Coo, look at all the people reading this thread!!!!!

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Faith itself, compelled by the Holy Spirit, possesses an inner dynamism that necessitates deeper understanding. ~Thomas Weinandy O.F.M.

I saw that guy.. who was it! Teter He was gonna fight that Randy "capt. USA" and during the prefight part, Teter kicks a chair and stuff. I was very disrespectful.

That guy Manny Reyes Jr is trying his best to change over from TMA to MMA.. what is he thinking

__________________
"I should never have been convicted of anything more serious than running a cemetery without a license." --John Wayne Gacy

“	Originally Posted By: x893 And it is very hard to be polite and honestly say what you feel at the same time. You have to really understand yourself and how others perceive you...something everyone can work on.	”

Even more on message boards, or you could be banned.

__________________
"I should never have been convicted of anything more serious than running a cemetery without a license." --John Wayne Gacy

“	Originally Posted By: chief108 for starters: the humility and respect that TMA offers.... Chief108	”

TMA offers but how many people buy it

.....at least MMA people will knuckle up and not hide behind values like tradition and honor. My stomach turns when TMA's use this argument.

X, you can call it overall behavior, but unless chief is surronded by MMA trainers, competitors, promoters, fans, old skool fighters and New skool's, then he is just stereotyping....and trolling.

“	Originally Posted By: Lance Havock .....at least MMA people will knuckle up and not hide behind values like tradition and honor. My stomach turns when TMA's use this argument.	”

What exactly are you referring to here How a TMA will not knuckle up in regards to respect (which makes no sense, of course)

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Brutal honesty fosters brutality more than honesty.

“	Originally Posted By: ThraxDalgren What exactly are you referring to here How a TMA will not knuckle up in regards to respect (which makes no sense, of course)	”

Can someone please translate this into canadaspeak

“	.....at least MMA people will knuckle up and not hide behind values like tradition and honor. My stomach turns when TMA's use this argument.	”

Yo TD, do you know what a case quarter is
<god that brings back memories>

Lance Havock, few people realise the little known fact that Lance is a MMA/TMA double agent, who is doing his best to live up to Chief's sentiment and therefore win a victory for TMA while looking like he is defending MMA!




Thrax, Lance is suggesting that ocassionally, some TMA guys will turn down opportunities to test their skill ( in many different venues ) by claiming that the contest or situation is "dishonorable" or fighting in front of people would be a spectacle that is beneath their dignity and such. Lance is suggesting that these arguments really camoflage a lack of experience and skill.

__________________
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

“	Lance is suggesting that these arguments really camoflage a lack of experience and skill.	”

Which is an assumption.

“	X, you can call it overall behavior, but unless chief is surronded by MMA trainers, competitors, promoters, fans, old skool fighters and New skool's, then he is just stereotyping....and trolling.	”

Stereotyping...another quote of yours from just a few posts ago:

“	.....at least MMA people will knuckle up and not hide behind values like tradition and honor.	”

You see, everyone does this...you just did it yourself.
We all make generalities and stereotypes. One group is like "this"...another group is like "that".
We all have different experiences, I'm merely pointing out that it's possible every MMA person he has met has been like he mentioned....disrespectful or lacking humility.
To be honest...personally...most martial artists I've met (in all categories) are or can be like this.

Let's say Chief met 30 MMA guys throughout his life...and all had similar disrespectful behavior....@ some point he's gonna think "hey...most of theses are like this...it must represent a larger sample of the MMA population".

And I wouldnt blame him for thinking that way (most of us do at some point) ...as long as he treats each individual like an individual and perceives them based on their own merits.

Whether he does or not...I dont know...that's up to him. I personally try to judge each person on their own merits...but it's something, again, we probably all could work on.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

“	The reality is, and I know this especially as a Southerner, it's very HARD to be honest AND polite!	”

That it is. I found that issue dealing with my girlfriend and her parents.