Putting skills to the test to evolve

Good day all..

On this thread I wanted to explore an idea used at some studios but personally I favor in training my students to evolve past barriers in their skills only being used in set patterns or situations.

What I do is set up situations that test their already known skills in rare situations and environments. I would randomly set up interesting scenarios for them to figure out in applying their kung fu. Here are a few examples:

1) During winter we would train in snow, with full bulky clothes, and even on ice some days (for advanced students). try kicking with snow boots on once...

2) Students would have one hand to attack and defend with. This simulated maybe getting one broke or really damage during an altercation and having to continue fighting with only one arm! We sometimes tied the other to the waist or they simply held it back.

3) Hands bound together like they have been kidknapped or tied up at wrists.

4) Start the defense situation up against the walls of the studio. They would have to defend against chokes, being held and then punched at, two on one (while being held by one attacker).

5) Defending while standing in door frames for limited space like they might be entering a small room and being attacked right as they enter.

6) Blindfolded and learning to grappling and apply joint locks with only feeling. This might represent being blinded by dirt or strike and needing to continue fighting with limited senses.

Are there some training methods in this line of thinking that you have be tested with or others you have used yourself, for those who are instructors

For my advanced students who had been there a long time and I had a good relationship with, we would go to parks and woods and fight on rocks and fallen trees to perfect our balance and skills in very dangerous and limiting situations. We also had the options of using available "items" within reach to fight against each other. This simulating weapon aspects like when we would grab a nice staff (branch) or use rocks as ranged weapons.

What a commited teacher. Respect !

__________________
SHJ

Very good ideas!!!
Something we did in aikijujitsu school...
Students would line up at one end of the school and the instructor would pick 3 or 4 students of varying skill to be spaced out in the middle of the class. One at a time....the students in line had to go through all of the students (the 3 or 4) and make it to the other side of the room. The students in the middle can attack all at once, one at a time, or in any combination they feel like. The instructor would often give them special instructions for each student since he knew our weak areas. This was done without our knowledge prior to starting. For instance he would say....this guy struggles with rear chokes or round punches to the face....do that a couple of times to him!!!
I think this was a very good exercise. On the street you cant always run away and you may have to force your way to a certain point.
Oh! The instructor would vary the rules based on skill level. Advanced students may have to fight in street clothes or on a slippery surface(kinda like what you said in your post). The rules could be whatever deemed necessary...but the student must make it to the end....or get back in line...

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If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

Also... I forgot to mention...we did most of the things you did....especially standing against a wall and being held while being attacked by a third person!!!

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

Great post you obviously have an understanding of real defence and come from a good martial arts background.
I have been discussing this same thing in the main forums of kung fu magazine with some high level spm instructors. We have labeled what you discribe as "presure testing". In other words the ability to use your art under stress or times when certain aspects of it are not available. IMO without these kinds of skills most students are useless on the street.
Some others i thought i might add that ive trained [im still student level]
Training on slippery ground. Ice, wet grass and gravel
Training to fight in water... No root very confusing for many cma.
Learning self defence whilst seated.
Addressing the issue you may well be hit and hurt before you even know your being attacked.
Addressing the issue your style may not be perfect and you may have a harder time dealing with some attacks than others.
Addressing the issue you may need to simply fight for your life and forget your pride.
Learning to spar using only 3 movements against an opponent using a whole arsenal. This teaches students to addapt there technique to the situation at hand and not fall into a stale mess of "if you do this, ill do that".
Get real learning application... Really if your doing a two man set and you blow a block you SHOULD get hit. If not your partner was deliberatly holding back.
I have seen to many schools where application is taught by standing facing each other about a meter appart. One student then throws a wildly telegraphed punch at a defender, who then has to actualy move forward to even meet the attack. This aint gonna happen on the street and training that way is nothing but dangerous.
Get in there get hit and get used to it thats where im at now.
Again great post

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Up and down, forward and backward, left and right, its all the same. All of this is done with the mind, not externaly.
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Shen, Yi, Qi
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One race - Human!

Wow, Suhfu Alan Cicco...those are all some great ideas, which we unfortunately do not do ANY of! I am going to print your post and show it to my Sifu, with the hopes that he may be able to work some of them into our program. As for the snow/ice training, we'll have to forget that one, since we're in Florida, but a great idea nontheless!


Krissy

I would like to add that the water training is excellent. When you sparr in a pool, you can increase the amount of power used (ends up being like slow motion anyway - but the counters and reactions are also slow motion - -trey it out you will like it). Training in water also helps with balance. For exampple, stand in water chest hight and slowly, deliberately, place your kicks to all the target points. It is easy to balance and helps promte muscle conditioning so when you execute the kicks out of the water, they improve quicker. I also stretch in hot tubs - excellent way of loosening up and is also great after a hard work out or sparring session.

Now, it is also a good time to note other elemental training. I try to go out in heavy rainfall, high winds etc to train. When you have 70 mph winds ripping in you at the same time your sparring partner is coming in on you, with the wind, it is an amazing sense. It is also a good time for forms/kata training as it will naturally strengthen your muscles as they counter the wind stress. Rolling into and against the wind storm is also fun and helps teach power, timing and focus.

If you have snow... working out and sparring in deep poweder. You have to try that one! Lots of sweat and grunting.

Also, you can try fire training. You can get lava rock and set up a camp like setting and have a ritual like experience. Heat all your rocks till there red hot, place an equal amount of rocks in four sections (the four directions). This becomes your circle of fire. Then conduct form training, while blindfolded. The thing stressed here is the feeling of heat. It will let you know where you are. Then a fun game to play is sparring in the ring of fire. The one to get 'knocked' out of the ring sits down and another enters. Kind of like king of the hill. Obviously you must use caution for the ring of fire training. But, it is so much fun and it also teaches about the power of the element.

Anyway, all the stuff mentioned is great! Just wanted to add a couple additions to the elements and the importance of adding elemental training to your studies. Hope this finds some interested readers!

Phoenix

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When the frosty heavens moon sets near,
who's shadow, with my own,
will the clear cool pond,
reflect cold?

Wow.

After reading your post i have realised that there are more instructors, similar to me and my father, who like to set up situations. Our instructor did this to us and it has always been a very good way of helping students react under pressure.

this helps to create a slightly more aware and reactive bunch of students.

we have two main methods of doing this these are, The Circle, and the Alleyway,
these work as follows...

The Circle.
the circle is my favorite because it is more "hands on", its also more of a workout.

One student is chosen out of the bunch and placed in the middle of the circle, formed by the other students.
Then all the others are given numbers, one to ..... whatever, (say 12)(think of it like a clock face) student starts off looking at one, then the instructor calls out random numbers, Yep RANDOM. this is good because it helps with periferal vision and all angle awarness, if you cant see it, don't mean its not there...
the attacks can be one at a time or multi opponant, it gets good when theres three of em attacking at 12, 3, and 7. really makes for good fun!!
it also works well with teaching kids being bullied by gangs, Christofer one of my old students once took out five teenage lads trying to mug him, i would have helped but my dinner would have gotten cold, and it seemed he had the situation under controll. he recieved a medal from me because it was the best thing i'd seen in years, so funny, better than Monty Python, and thats saying something!!

The Alleyway.
the alleyway helps with reactions rather than just getting stuck in, if youve been punched in the nose, your eyes start running and your pretty much finished anyway..
ok, set the "lines" like this...
__2___4___6___8___10___12
1
____3___5___7___9____11___13

set them up so that it creates an effect of a human wall down each side, then off-set them so that they look in to the middle and that say 7 is facing the gap between 6 and 8's shoulders, so that as one walks down the middle, only one can attck at once. each attacker may ONLY attck when the person walking down the middle is DIRECTLY in FRONT OF THEM.
plus not every one attacks, only predetermined people, so say the Si-Fu says 2,5,10,11 then only those people would attack when they get directly in front of them. good fun, and its lessons are learnt quickly about being aware.

both of these "games" were used rigorusly at lease once a week by my sifu innorder to build spped in my reactions and a kwoledge of what go'es off around me, i hope others will find these as usful as we did.
Thank you, may the energys of life, enrich your soul.

Those are all very good ideas to add a different level of training to any martial art. Inovation is one of the signs of a good teacher!

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"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

Sifu Gray-H that is so great that you also use that idea of a cirlce. We do the same thing and just call it a gaunlet. Then in the middle of all it, I will call out almost everyone to attack to help every student understand that there are limits and no one defend every attack as your chances go down after the first consecutive one to be launched. Also helps diminish ego amongst students and they realize that no one is omnipotent.

Glad to meet you and lucky you posted to let others, like you and your father, know we are helping student in similar ways to advance and evolve in their skills beyond normal day to day class material. As you mentioned...it does create an very potent reaction time and ability amongst student that train this way and is a very good similation of real life random attacks and situations.