Shao Lin Martial Arts

**Mei Hua** · #16 (**permalink**) May 17th, 2008, 04:33 AM

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara A traditional Shaolin kung fu school that is teaching wrestling and boxing... Interesting.	”

The Chinese version, not Western

Chinese Kung Fu is known as Boxing

Wrestling would be Shui Jiao and San Shou

Lugaldamhara · #17 (**permalink**) May 17th, 2008, 04:50 AM

“	The Chinese version, not Western	”

What Chinese word translates as "boxing"....? As far as I know it was a western term...

“	Wrestling would be Shui Jiao and San Shou	”

Wrestling is wrestling.... Shuai Jiao and San Shou are Shuai Jao and San Shou...

The school/site uses Chinese terms for so many things why use western terms (which are also designated style/sport names) such as boxing and wrestling, especially when boxing is drastically different from TCMA hand/punching/striking skills and wrestling is pretty distinct from TCMA grappling skills....?

It is very confusing...?

American boxing gyms don't claim to teach "Chuan".....

**Mei Hua** · #18 (**permalink**) May 17th, 2008, 05:05 AM

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara What Chinese word translates as "boxing"....? As far as I know it was a western term... Wrestling is wrestling.... Shuai Jiao and San Shou are Shuai Jao and San Shou... The school/site uses Chinese terms for so many things why use western terms (which are also designated style/sport names) such as boxing and wrestling, especially when boxing is drastically different from TCMA hand/punching/striking skills and wrestling is pretty distinct from TCMA grappling skills....? It is very confusing...? American boxing gyms don't claim to teach "Chuan".....	”

When East met West there was an intermix of terms to be better understood.

Westerner's called Kung Fu Boxing when they saw it as that was the only way to describe what the fighting skills they saw were.

Same goes for the Shui Jiao, it looked like Wrestling to the Westerners so that's what they called it and as there was a continued relationship between the various peoples, those names were taken on.

My CMA style, Mei Hua Chuan is commonly known as Plum Blossom Fist or Plum Blossom Boxing, means the same thing but different ways of saying it

Lugaldamhara · #19 (**permalink**) May 17th, 2008, 05:31 AM

So there are no Chinese words that directly translate to "boxing" or "wrestling".

Again, there are no American boxing gyms that claim to teach "Chuan"...

Bob1 · #20 (**permalink**) May 17th, 2008, 05:52 AM

What worries me about these guys is that the don’t seam to have a reputation. I am not saying they are bad or that they are no good just cos I haven’t heard off them but the world of Chinese martial arts is smaller than you might expect good schools or good people do get a reputation.

For example even I have heard of the Chin Wu and always spoken of in respectful terms. Even though it has nothing to do with the club I belong to or the art that i practice

Who as heard of these guys before? On their web site they do quote the origin of some of the styles they teach (so and so is a 7th generation disciple of so and so). If you really want to check them out you need to research those lineages, fill in the empty names in the tree, see if there are any other descendents /schools out their teaching and see if they have heard of each other.

The moneys not important you can always earn more, but a year of your life (or whatever) – you are never going to get that back. Check them out !!

Sammygirl · #21 (**permalink**) May 17th, 2008, 09:06 AM

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara That's complete horses**t. If I was paying someone for instruction they better be bestowing knowledge upon me and teaching me technical principles and technique... not telling me to stand a certain way for hours on end simply to develop attributal properties that I can do on my own for free.	”

My point exactly ... almost. I'm just saying, why go to China to do horse stance? Learn basics first then you won't waste several grand and precious time learning it in China.

“	From my experience schools that spend a lot of time on attributal development like that are doing so to make up for their lack of technical knowledge. It's prevalent within the MMA community as well as the TMA community. Sadly, when it's in the TMA community they will tell you "it's how it was done in the old days and you should respect and understand the discipline and tradition involved" as if it's an attempt to impart some esoteric code of discipline and honor. When it's in the MMA community it's usually because the instructors/trainers think that stronger/faster/bigger/tougher will overcome technique. Sometimes that is true but technique coupled with attributes is always superior.	”

In some respects I disagree but I understand your point about the negatives of training one skill for a long time.

“	When people pay to go to law school they don't just learn how to buy sports cars so they can chase ambulances and lie and scream and yell and argue.... They are actually taught the intricacies of the justice system and how it works.	”

Yes, but in order to get the most out of law school they need to know how to read first.

Jeffrey Quinn · #22 (**permalink**) May 20th, 2008, 03:34 PM

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara So there are no Chinese words that directly translate to "boxing" or "wrestling". Again, there are no American boxing gyms that claim to teach "Chuan"...	”

Boxing as we know the term is called "quanji". It basically means to hit each other with the hands. (Western sport fencing is "jijian", or to hit each other with a jian, and yes, they do lose something in translation.)

Shuaijiao and/or jiaoli (li="strength") are used for all types of wrestling in the world. Like we do, they "Olympic wrestling" or "Greco-Roman wrestling".