Shao Lin Martial Arts

I am writing in regards to training in China, I found this website on the internet: http://www.shaolins.org/ has anybody been here before? They seem to teach a lot of stuff, I'm going to paste it but bear with me I have some questions.

• (The First year) - Students at the academy learn Basic Gong (Kung), including weapons, wrestling ways, practical boxing skill and basic footwork way, Shao Lin big Hong chuangs and small Hong chuan, Tong bi and Palm chuang, small Ruo Han chuan, and other forms. The Basic Gong instruction includes saber-routine skills, sword-routine skills, cudgel routine skills, and Shao Lin thirteen spears routine skills, etc.. The First year of training includes the following Shao lin quans (forms or chuans): Shao lin wu bu, lian huan, nan, Ba ji, Ba ji xiao jia (nei gong quan), Ba da zhao, liu da kai, zi mu (son and mom quan), mei hua, 7-star preying mantis, pi kua, pair of practical training, shao yang, liu he, Ba bu lian huan, Jing gan, Ruo han 1-9 routines, Da hong, Da tong, Xing yi long routine, Pi gua, five animal styles routines, Wu he, Xin yi ba, Pu quan, Gong zi fu hu, southern shaolin Nan mei, Ba duan ji, traditional Qi gong, 9-section iron whip basics, 2-section cudgels (er jie guan).

• (The Second year ) - Students learn Big Ruo Han chuan, Pao chuan, Shao Lin cross attack chuan, Free chosen art chuan, Shao Lin Tai zhu long routine chuan, Gong li chuan, and other forms. Weapons are Shao Lin three-section cudgel, Da mo sword routine, Shao Lin Spring-Autumn saber routine, 9-section intermediate iron-whip routines, practice with other students (paired practice), and other weapons.

• (The Third year ) - Students learn the most sought-after skills or "essence" of Shao Lin martial art: Boxing, the higher-skilled routines of chuan (form) and weapons such as one-hand-only subdue enemy, Hard Qi Gong (or Chi Kung), practical Boxing, Shao Lin xin, men seven star chuan, Shao Lin Yi jin jing nei internal gong, Shao Lin Buddist Monk's cudgel, Shao Lin stick, chain of rings, spears, and more.
  
• Also in the Hard (external) qi gong department the students learn to strike nails into hardwood with the palms of the bare hands, Shao Lin Fire gong, Iron hands sand gong; advanced iron and sand palms, etc.. The practical boxing department teaches footwork. Chuan (form) work teaches blending of leg work and wrestling and combines them for practical use; i.e. "how to use Ti Chuan's elbow and knee hit; Shao Lin fast attack; Xin yi chuan" (building and directing power).

• (The Fourth year and beyond) - it will take the average student at least three to four years to attain a "middle degree" ranking in the Shao lin martial arts (this would be to attain a level of 3rd, 4th, or 5th degree). 9th degree is the highest possible level or rank a Shao lin master can attain.

is this a real school? so what exactly are they teaching? what is a quan and chuan(gs)? according to this as the years go by I am learning about 20+ styles. Is that true or are they just forms from different styles? What is "basic gong"? What would be the result of training 4+ years here? what is Shao Lin martial arts they seem to be talking about everything here when using that name? can anybody provide a contact to a better school than this?

The word years should be replaced by decades for that to be believeable?

I agree with Inferus, unless they have you training 24/7/365...

I've heard the name before but know nothing of that school, seems more like they are out to capitalize on Shao Lin and make money off foreingners, it takes far far longer than four years to achieve the ranking they say you will.

Gong relates to energy exercises= nei gong/internal energy exercises, wei gong/external energy exercises.

Quan/Chuan means fist/boxing and in another sense style. I do Mei Hua Chuan a.k.a. Plum Blossom Fist/Boxing.

Google Shaolin, it is the CMA mecha and many CMA's have some relation in some way to Shaolin.

__________________
Oh THAT'S how that works!

I dont know much about modern wushu, but thats the first thing I think about when I read that description.

__________________
PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

my sifu told me years ago theirs more fakes in asia than in north america. l did business with china a few years back . you have to take what is said with a grain of salt. it sounds to good . first its a communist country they dont support religeon so be carefull of claims of being a monk . the last abbot who was real died some years back. l have a video of him and what his students could do. its a business there to get american money. l have had my students go to china except for the adventure of going they were dissapointed . after haveing seen what can come out of tai wan and hong kong . remember that when china had the cultural revolution the top teachers fled to tai wan and hong kong . china seems to spend more in advertising to get tourists with grand promises. old saying : if it sounds to good it usually is

They aren't styles its everything that is encorporated within the art of Shao Lin gong fu. And as for it taking more than 4+ years to attain the ranks that is not true. Its not just a martial arts academy. Its just like military boot camp you live at the school and from wake to sleep you are training 7 days a week if you choose. From 5:30 AM to 9 PM they have you training. You can choose to take free time/meditation/or mandarin language after 5 PM tho. I am considering attending this academy after the Winter when I have put away enough money. I have spoken to Mr. Che countless times and have been in contact with him for quite sometime now. So this academy is 100% legit no gimmicks here.

enjoy

__________________
"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Thats an aweful lot of money to pay. They seem really strict also. To do kung fu from the time you wake up in the morning to the time you go to bed every day seems a bit to much for me. It's not like you can take an hour break here and there. The only breaks you get are for lunch and dinner and meditation/language class. And on top of all that they can dismiss you at any time and keep your money. It sounds to millitary in structure for me. And I bet what they teach is contemporary wu shu/kung fu not the true traditional stuff.

__________________
Mark
Liberalism is a mental disorder. -M. Savage

The thing with such a diverse curriculum...the student will likely be handed the next delivious plate before he has fully enjoyed the prior. So its more of a buffet than anything else. I certain commend anyone who does that 24/7. You are definitely more motivated and funded than I am.

__________________
"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

I've read accounts of people going to do that kind of training and getting seriously injured ( torn ligaments, muscles, etc. ).

That would make sense. The body needs recovery time. Some herbs can speed the recovery process up, but...yeah, that's a good point Doughboy.

__________________
"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

To be really good at Wushu by the time you can afford to go you are too old to start

if all you want to do is to become a really good fighter (and you have the right stuff on the inside) you can do that in 2 to 3 years right here

Somewhere in the middle (about 12-15 years) is the Chinese Boxing Institute here and in Germany

__________________
You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

I wouldn't recommend anybody go to China to train with no prior experience in TCMA stateside. If you go as a beginner and they're really traditional, all you will do is horse stance and foundation training for several months and you can do that right here for a lot less money. If they aren't traditional they might throw a hodgepodge of cool-looking moves to you, except you don't have the proper foundation so you'll just look like cr@p.

Plus they love beginners in China -- sweet, innocent, naive, *rich* foreigners with no MA experience, no language skills, no guide and no clue.

All the curriculum you listed, you can get at a good Shaolin school in the States, and you have lotsa people on this Forum who will help you find quality instruction. If you want to study full-time for several months there are schools in the States that offer that, too.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

The school in question is in Jilin. Shaolin is in Henan. See my map.

I've met a few people who have those layman certificates. They don't mean much, even if they really come from Shaolin. I believe they sell them and use the money to maintain the temple. I don't think they give them to just anyone who comes along with money, but there's a lot of them floating around. You don't actually need to have trained at Shaolin.

Quan can mean either a whole style or a specific training set or method.

The costs seem pretty reasonable to me, for what they offer.

Check out some of Mengcunman's posts. His experience was with good rural Baji teachers in Hebei. No purdy uniforms, though.

My recommended way of training in China long-term is to enroll in a Chinese-language program at a university in the city where you want to train. I tend to be skeptical of full-time gongfu teachers. Asides from provincial-level wushu coaches, who are paid by the government, they're a pretty shady bunch. Most of the best traditional teachers have day jobs (farmers, more often than not). There's only so many hours you can train in a day, and this way you learn something useful in hour off-training time. If you don't like your teacher, you have a lot more options, a student visa opens way more doors than a tourist visa. Of course, I may be biased, because this is what I did. If anyone is serious about this route, feel free to PM me.

__________________
http://www.meihuazhuang.ca
http://www.jeffreyquinn.ca

“	Students at the academy learn Basic Gong (Kung), including weapons, wrestling ways, practical boxing skill	”

A traditional Shaolin kung fu school that is teaching wrestling and boxing... Interesting.

“	If you go as a beginner and they're really traditional, all you will do is horse stance and foundation training for several months	”

That's complete horses**t. If I was paying someone for instruction they better be bestowing knowledge upon me and teaching me technical principles and technique... not telling me to stand a certain way for hours on end simply to develop attributal properties that I can do on my own for free. From my experience schools that spend a lot of time on attributal development like that are doing so to make up for their lack of technical knowledge. It's prevalent within the MMA community as well as the TMA community. Sadly, when it's in the TMA community they will tell you "it's how it was done in the old days and you should respect and understand the discipline and tradition involved" as if it's an attempt to impart some esoteric code of discipline and honor. When it's in the MMA community it's usually because the instructors/trainers think that stronger/faster/bigger/tougher will overcome technique. Sometimes that is true but technique coupled with attributes is always superior.

Anyone can develop attributes on their own. If someone is paying for knowledge and instruction that is what they should be getting.

When people pay to go to law school they don't just learn how to buy sports cars so they can chase ambulances and lie and scream and yell and argue.... They are actually taught the intricacies of the justice system and how it works.

__________________
Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."