Last night I tried Aikido

My Teacher is away in spain, so instead of just lazing, I have decided to go and try some of the other local classes. I have never really been to any other classes properly, I have watched a couple and have trained with some taekwondo people but that was because my teacher also teaches taekwondo. So I thought it would be good for me to try some others. Last night I went to an Aikido class, I was interested in doing aikido because its seemed different to what i normally do, and also everyone slags it off, so I wanted to see if it was that bad lol. I was expecting to learn something though.

The warmup was a few quite light stretches, with extra attention on the wrists and shoulders followed by a lot of forward and backward rolls. There was also a qigong type exercise. None of this was nearly as hard as what I am used to, in fact i only really got a bit warm, not sweating and knackered like at kung fu.

We then had to do an exercise where you grab (or get grabbed) by the wrist then side step round your partner. It was a bit like ballroom dancing and was quite confusing, I didnt quite get the hang of it.

Then i was taken aside with another noob and we were taught how to breakfall which was basically the forward and backward rolls that I had obviously done rubbishly earlier. I say backward and forward rolls, but they were more over one shoulder. I did find this interesting and it could be a useful skill to have

After that i was shown a defense against a wrist grab, which if i had been shown in kung fu i would have described as a shoulder lock, however in aikido, when you apply a shoulder lock, they get out of it by doing a backward roll so it kind of seemed like a throw, so im not sure what they would refer to it as

I have read on here that some aikidokas are encouraged not to resist, but to actually go along with it, kind of making it as easy as possible. I couldnt really understand why anyone would do that, but at this class, sure enough, you were told to do the breakfall whatever, and the reason for this was safety, if you dont go along with it there is a danger of damaging joints, also as i said earlier you escape with the breakfall. However this did seem alien to me. A few times i messed up the technique, let go, but then they had already flown to the ground and rolled anyway.

We then did a simple kata, which reminded me again of ballroom dancing and the instructor even described it as 'a bit like ballroom dancing'

For the last 10 minutes, we were given a bokken and shown a few basic moves which we then practiced which was fun because Ive never done anything like that before

Overall I did enjoy it. It was fun learning how to roll, and the techniques were different. The constant dropping to knees and bowing seemed a bit much and at the start we all had to bow to a picture of the founder of aikido 'O Sensei'

I am tempted to go back again next monday, I dont really see how anyone can get good fighting skill from that alone when they dont have anyone sparring or knowing how to attack, or even slightly resisting, but nevertheless it was fun and I may be able to get some skills from it... I'm not sure.....

oh yes, I might add that my neck really hurts today, probably because of all my messed up backward roll and the lack of much neck stretching in the warm up

You have to bear in mind the distinction between JMA styles that end in Jutsu, and those that end in Do. The former means "technique" and the latter means "way".

Broadly speaking, styles that end in "do" (i.e: Judo, Kendo, Aikido) are more like artforms, refined versions of their more brutal and "effective" cousins (Jujitsu, Kenjutsu, Aikijitsu or Aikijujitsu).

Aikido involves the deep study of a very refined set of principles. Alone, it might not supply the practitioner with a wide range of weapons but it will certainly make one of them very sharp.

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Cling to nothing, except your Lego...

Wow that is almost identical to the class I used to go to. It's funny, looking back the most useful thing I learnt from my six months learning Aikido was probably the rolling too. I think that will be something I will always remember, I still practice it. The wrist grab side step routine, as you described it, is an exercise to help you blend with your partner. Most Aikido training happens with a partner. One is doing the technique and the other is the uke (victim that gets thrown around). The whole idea is that even when you are uke that you feel the technique and learn more about it. That is why the uke doesn't resist the technique. I remember my first class. There was so much to take in, I hardly got anything either, and yes all the formalities seemed a bit to much to me too.

I have all the doubts that you have about whether or not it is an effective way to fight. That is why I recently changed my art and moved on to Wing Chun. I think Aikido could be very effective, but that it would take years and years of dedication.

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I like these calm little moments before the storm.

SunWuKung: I didnt realise about the difference between do and jutsu, but I did get the impression before i went that aikido was as you described. the funny thing is though, it seemed to me like the people that taught it didnt seem to weant to present it like that, i was told I could ask if I wanted to know how it would work on the street etc, and to be fair when asked they did show how the nice safe technique could be adapted to be a shoulder breaker. I expect this is what most newbies are interested in when they start a martial art for the first time, they want to be able to defend themselves and are not worried as much about the art of it. I didnt tell them how much experience i have, I just said i had done 'a bit of kung fu'

Ginger: I did find it interesting that it was as much about learning to be thrown as it was about the throwing. Maybe I will go again. Its only £20 a year membership and £3 each time, but I have to sign up before i can train again

“	Originally Posted By: djstatika i was told I could ask if I wanted to know how it would work on the street etc, and to be fair when asked they did show how the nice safe technique could be adapted to be a shoulder breaker.	”

All techniques will "work on the street" - and here's the hard part - IF you can find the opportunity to execute them. MMA and free sparring are good ways of developing experience to a level where you can use them in that situation.

If you actually manage to execute an Aikido technique at full pelt, you are likely to cause someone some serious damage. Conversely, you'll probably find that eventuality very infrequent unless you have a great level of experience. In addition, you will need to have an equivalent amount of experience of performing under pressure against skilled opponents who don't play Uke for you - which is not something you will find easy to develop in an Aikido class.

Again, this is part of the reason that the arts are split in this way in Japan. It's a bit like the difference between applied and theoretical physics.

Ultimately, how you choose to train depends on your aims.

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Cling to nothing, except your Lego...

I understand that SunWuKung, I was just explaining how they presented it, which was like they were afraid that i would lose interest if I thought it wouldnt work "on the street", whereas i wasnt really bothered about that and I found it strange that they thought I would be, and just wonder if this is from previous experience with newcomers.

Im sure the techniques can work, dont get me wrong!

Fair shout. I can understand why they feel that way, since many TMA have lost students who are interested in "effectiveness" as defined by a certain definition of MA.

Having said that (and this point isn't aimed at you), teachers shouldn't try and "catch" students, it's up to the student if they want to learn a system, and they have to understand and accept the nature of that system rather than have it disguised as something it isn't.

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Cling to nothing, except your Lego...

“	Originally Posted By: SunWuKung Having said that (and this point isn't aimed at you), teachers shouldn't try and "catch" students, it's up to the student if they want to learn a system, and they have to understand and accept the nature of that system rather than have it disguised as something it isn't.	”

This is a very important statement for both students and teachers.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Having said that (and this point isn't aimed at you), teachers shouldn't try and "catch" students, it's up to the student if they want to learn a system, and they have to understand and accept the nature of that system rather than have it disguised as something it isn't.	”

Yep and there is a middle ground teachers have to find.
When new guys come in to train I start them off doing mundane shrimping and bridging/bumping drills (which are probably the most important skills they will ever learn). I explain to them that it is boring and mundane but that it will be really beneficial to them in the long run. I explain to them that I am more concerned for the most part with their positional skills and am not worried about their submission skills. At the end of class I always show them a submission and I explain to them that, "I know you guys come to a grappling class because you want to learn how to choke people and break people's arms and legs so I am going to show you this". Then I show them how having a good positional game allows them to more easily set up the submissions.

The thing is that many students in the fast food culture we have today want to get right to the nitty gritty. I tell them, "I can spend the next 3 hours and show you every submission hold I know but you will never be able to put me in a single one of them unless you have good fundamental positional skills." As a teacher, you have to show them enough of what they want to see but make them realize that they need to focus on crawling before learning to walk.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara The thing is that many students in the fast food culture we have today want to get right to the nitty gritty. I tell them, "I can spend the next 3 hours and show you every submission hold I know but you will never be able to put me in a single one of them unless you have good fundamental positional skills." As a teacher, you have to show them enough of what they want to see but make them realize that they need to focus on crawling before learning to walk.	”

In support of that idea, as a student of grappling I cant personally do much with more than a single submission in a given day of class anyway. I find that I dont even really start considering openings to use a new submission, let alone try to use it until Ive had probably 2 classes which work drills on that submission and some open mat time to try and play around with it at 70-80% intensity, and even then its coimpletely useless when the other persons basics are better than mine.

I think this transcends the art one is studying...

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

“	Originally Posted By: SunWuKung You have to bear in mind the distinction between JMA styles that end in Jutsu, and those that end in Do. The former means "technique" and the latter means "way". Broadly speaking, styles that end in "do" (i.e: Judo, Kendo, Aikido) are more like artforms, refined versions of their more brutal and "effective" cousins (Jujitsu, Kenjutsu, Aikijitsu or Aikijujitsu). Aikido involves the deep study of a very refined set of principles. Alone, it might not supply the practitioner with a wide range of weapons but it will certainly make one of them very sharp.	”

I would say this is partly correct. The jitsu's contain more 'lethal' techniques, however the do's provide a more modern, sportive approach. At least, Judo does anyway. What use is a technique you cannot practice at full strength.

The reason why this happened was one of the Japanese Leaders complaining about the arts. I can't remember the story at the moment, just been fighting in judo to prepare for a grading (3 fights) and my head has gone into cabbage mode!

Hoping to win my next set of ranks

For a good dissertation on the differences between "do" and "jitsu" go to Wikipedia and look up "koryu".

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

“	The thing is that many students in the fast food culture we have today want to get right to the nitty gritty. I tell them, "I can spend the next 3 hours and show you every submission hold I know but you will never be able to put me in a single one of them unless you have good fundamental positional skills." As a teacher, you have to show them enough of what they want to see but make them realize that they need to focus on crawling before learning to walk.	”

Man I couldn't have stated it any better. people want the easy road because they don't like the time it takes or the pain you have to put in to achieve a goal. Most people come in with the concept that they are going to learn some of that cool shi$ they saw on TV. Or they want to learn how to kill someone. I've actually had people ask me to show them how to kill someone. I say go get a gun and shot them.
Anyways, I agree with your statement about in general how people are and what they want.

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Sheng Hu

DRAGONSOUL

“	Originally Posted By: Dragonsoul I say go get a gun and shoot them.	”

I like it! lol.

DJS: There was a great blog on Aikido some time ago, you might want to dig it up. Aikido is great. Glad you enjoyed yourself.

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"Life is finite, while knowledge is infinite."
- Zhuang Zi (date unknown).