Breaking away from the family...

I wasn't sure how to word this or if it would be a topic many would be familiar with, but i thought it might make for an interesting discussion.

The majority of the members and guest here study a martial art or have studied a martial art. Many people have spent a number of yrs in their chosen style and would not change styles for any reason. Then there's people like Gui Long Umar who studied one style for a very longtime and switched to another.

What does it take to make you switch from a style you've trained in and loved for yrs, to another style?

I'm asking everyone for their own opinion, not to try and figure out why someone else would do it. This idea came to mind because my sifu grew up within a Choy Lay Fut family. His grandfather and uncle were both Choy Lay Fut masters and it was the style passed down through the family, yet my sifu broke away from the family and learned Blk Tiger.

He started learning CLF as a small child from his grandfather and then from his uncle, then at age 13 he met Grandmaster Wong Cheung and it was Blk Tiger from that point on. I know my sifu's reasons for doing so, but it seemed like a big choice for a 13 yr old. I'm happy he chose Blk Tiger, but that had to be a big step to go against your entire family.

So i'd like to hear your ideas of what it would take for you to change styles..


jeff

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History will be kind to me for I intend to write it ~ Sir Winston Churchill

“	Originally Posted By: Jeff C. What does it take to make you switch from a style you've trained in and loved for yrs, to another style?	”

well..
I've done all kinda Ma's before I found my Eagle Claw instructor..
I trained with him priavtely for 5 / 6 years...

this year all kinda things happened at the same time in his life so he decide to move to Greece...

I allready came to the Team Hardcore school for years to spar...
with the Kyokushin guys and the MMA guys...
I used to go to all kinda schools to train and spar if my instructor was outta the country and these guys were the hardest training and best fighting dudes around...

so now my training shifted just a *little* bit more towards that school...
it's still growing tho, very interesting
there are karateclasses, grappling classes, muay thai classes and there will be even more different MA's soon, also with high end instructors..

also there are many guest lessons by the finest Dutch fighters and coaches..

I still don't feel that I've "left" Eagle Claw for this tho...

probably is just another phase in my training in the eyes of my instructor...
to see far I get on my own

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

I did a number of things before I found Mei Hua Chuan, some I studied for years, and while they were good, they were not home (so to speak) as far as martial arts go...

What made me change, what I found now was taught more efficiently, more expertly, my instructor has a better understanding of history, technique, reasons why so and so is done so, power development and distribution, and my kung fu brothers are much the same, our master has enabled all of us to grow as martial artists and as human beings, he is a truly wise and great man, has my utmost sincere love and respect and along with our training we all are a family. That is why I chose MHC, it has increased my skills/knowledge far beyond anything anyone else could offer me, and I have gained a great group of guys as kung fu brothers and friends...
Aside from that, I've started training MMA; BJJ, Judo, MT, and while MHC has things along the same lines I feel that including this new training will further develop my TCMA skills and add to them to enable me to be better rounded as a martial artist/fighter.

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

I think "breaking away" is too black and white. My sifu started in AKS, then studied Shaolin Chuan Fa in Chicago with Master John C.Y. Tsai, after that he studied Tai Chi Praying Mantis with Master David Cheng in Hawaii. He respects and is still involved or in touch with all his previous masters. They are all our family. I myself have learned things from some of his teachers. My preference is probably TCPM but I know that learning Shaolin Chuan Fa drills and apps are important and will give me a good base. Master Twinning gave me some good stuff for tournament fighting and street self defense.

I feel badly for those that change styles or leave due to bad circumstances. That has never been the case for my sifu.

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I don't subscribe to any "style" so that concept is foreign to me. I would never turn my back on my team, though.

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

I'm not at all worried about style. The important thing for me is that it is good and the teacher has something I want to learn. If my current Sifu moves away I know a few good people I would love to train with and would probably move to an MMA gym. There's no Wing Chun worth training around here.
I could keep up with the great guys who I train with now- all that blood sweat and tears shared for that long makes strong bonds!

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Faith itself, compelled by the Holy Spirit, possesses an inner dynamism that necessitates deeper understanding. ~Thomas Weinandy O.F.M.

“	Originally Posted By: FightingFat If my current Sifu moves away I know a few good people I would love to train with and would probably move to an MMA gym. There's no Wing Chun worth training around here.	”

that's exactly how I feel...
there's no good kung fu around here..
not in any style!!!

tomorrow I'm gonna get a new style Hardcore Kyokoshin class...
that could be fun

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

Not sure, I've been like a mokey's tail for quite some time now.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

“	tomorrow I'm gonna get a new style Hardcore Kyokoshin class... that could be fun	”

You're gonna need some jow, some ice, some ibuprofen and a bottle of liquor!!!

Good luck!

Peace-
Cam

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Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

I actually have quite a bit of experience in this particular area... This may be a long winded response, but hey... you asked for it! I actually have to give almost two different answers to this... one for the first half of my life, and one for the second... there was a transition period for me as I began to enter into adult hood... any way, here we go!

I started my martial arts training one week before I turned 5... Shoto Kan Karate Do
from there I started meeting others involved with the arts, started going to little tourneys here and there as a small child... to international comps as a teenager... to exhibiton kick boxing as a young adult...my exposure to different schools of thought increased as I gained in years. I pretty much made a habit of training with those, that I precieved to be, the best around! I have trained with traditional ma guys in various backgrounds... Korean, Japanese, Chinese... even some Philipino arts such as Kuntow and Espadi Daga. Some of my instructors were world champion kickboxers... some world champion tourney players... I just went from place to place, sometimes a year here a month there... couple of years over there, I trained from age 5 till 18 until I met my Teacher and began learning the style that I am in now.

For me personally, I never found it difficult to leave a teacher! I never even thought twice about it... I am first and foremost a Martial Artist... have been since the day i was born (perhaps even before then) and will be until the day I die (perhaps even after that). This is just my opinion so please no one take offense... I don't see how you can call your self a Martial Artist and settel for second best. As a martial artist, my goal always has been to be the best I can be... I could never, ever in good faith stay with an instructor out of some warped sense of loyalty if I knew in my heart that I had the chance to train with someone better!

Perhaps that is why it took me over 17 years to ever earn a black belt... I would be training with one person and the second that I met someone better I was gone! I would follow the new person around sponging every bit of knowledge that I possibly could and then it was off to the next better thing I found! That was my first half of my life... and MA career...

then I found "The Teach" Co-Founder of my style... he showed me things I never even dreamed possible! A style that was beautiful yet powerful, one that focused on deeper things than throwing a punch or slinging around a sword or spear... one where the greatest fight is the struggle against ones own self! every other style I have ever trained in (think like 17 in total) and of the hundreds I have been exposed to over the years... have always seemed to have an external focus on others... its always, were better than them... or I'm tougher than him... or I can win this tourney... or that fight.... the focus just always seems to be on the external! My style is just different! its aproach, its philosophy. Don't get me wrong... fighting has always been a part of MA... and always will be, but from my point of view... what good is it you can beat everyone there is in a fight, (there are people who can do that with out ever studying MA) but you can't control your own breath... can't stand on your own two feet.... can't tell someone something and keep your word, can't take a deep breath when your angry or afraid and get control over your emotions... fly off the handle for no reason... if you hate everyone and all you think about is beating people up??? Then what good is your art?

Yes Martial Artists have always been warriors all throughout history... but they also were philosophers... poets, ones that would give of themselves to help those that couldn't help them selves... this is what I always envisioned a martial artist should be from the time of child hood... so when I finaly met a teacher that did not just talk like this... but actually lived it, I stuck to him like glue until the day he left this earth... I am still open to learn new things from new people...but my style isn't just my style... it is simply who and what I am!

it makes me sad when I hear you guys say that you could care less about styles... for me personally, I would of ended up dead if it were not for my style! (another long story) DSF competely changed my life!!! I have seen it change others lives too! And now I have a loyalty built so deep in my core that I could never turn my back on my style now...

so as I said there are my two different responses on this

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You just can't see my point can you??? strange, I can see yours so clearly that I can just reach out and touch it...

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara You're gonna need some jow, some ice, some ibuprofen and a bottle of liquor!!!	”

I know..

I played before with these guys....

if Henk is training it's gonna be hell
if anyone else is training it's just gonna be very painful...

“	Originally Posted By: Lugaldamhara Good luck!	”

thnx...

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

“	Originally Posted By: Jeff C. What does it take to make you switch from a style you've trained in and loved for yrs, to another style? So i'd like to hear your ideas of what it would take for you to change styles..	”

For me, a combination of factors.

Starting with curiousity about other styles, which I always had anyway. I also had an aim to look into BJJ, but alongside Wing Chun.

As it turned out, I ultimately dropped Wing Chun to pursue BJJ. Why? This is hard to put into words, because it was a combination of factors rather than one big issue. So it was more of a feeling than anything else. A feeling that I had gone as far as I was going to go, and I don't think my heart was in it anymore. I basically had no option but to leave. So it felt like the natural end of a process, hence I don't look back with bitterness.

When you look back though, you see things that you may not have seen at the time. I shudder when I think of what I put my shoulder through doing chi sao. So leaving Wing Chun benifitted the healing, and also re-inforced my view that, no matter what happens, I will never go back to the art, as it's just not practical for myself anymore.

On the same note, I have a wrist injury which is severely hampering my training at the moment, caused because I was never taught how to fall in Wing Chun. With a fair few years training, and under quite a few instructors, it is disappointing that I am injured because I was never told NOT to brace your fall by putting all your bodyweight onto your palm. Now, it might seem obvious, as wrist injuries from that are pretty common, but it's NOT obvious if you're never told. And if you're never shown any alternative, injury is pretty much inevitable.

So, maybe I lied, I clearly do harbour some bitterness, because I feel that training in the art made me more likely to become injured. I could never chi sao without constantly having to subconsciously protect my shoulder, it's only now that I realise just how at risk it was by going into positions such as bong sao.

well i am going to start jujitsu again next term

i am not going to stop my wing chun traininng though

in fact it is due to my WC tha i have decided to take up JJ again

recently i have found that i have been finding myself appling basic locks

and the like whilst playing chi sau

this an area i would like to explore more

and after talking with one of the JJ instructor at the university

i have decided to go for it

mainly because i dont want to wast my time reinventing tbe wheel

only to find i have a flat tyre

also discussions with cam and beleive it or not the mighty inferus

have added wieght ro my decision

it does mean that i may have to give up one of my dancing classes

but we'll see

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

there are no pure fit all arts anymore. thats why i cross train in several arts, TKD for legs, boxing for arms, judo for throws and ground work, and CMA for my line dancing.

“	Originally Posted By: worf , and CMA for my line dancing.	”

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