Judo or Jujitsu?

I am considering learning a bit of grappling would quite like to do something like judo or jujitsu, and would quite like to know the pros and cons of each other over each other, and I dont just mean which is more effective, i mean for example, judo is perhaps a bit more sport focussed and doing a 'sport' quite appeals. Which is quicker to learn? Is one more focussed on ground work? etc.

Basically I just want some information and opinions comparing the 2.

Can anyone help?

I had a similair problem, wanting to try and learn some grappling skills myself, so I went to a JJ class and a Jujitsu class. The latter was more akin to TMA, more drill oriented and focussing on locks and so forth (though I didn't go for very long, so I hardly have much experience of it). I also went to a judo class, and that had a greater focus on ground training (in the sessions I watched). I'm currently looking into greco-roman - since I practice WC we play into grappling range so it would be an ideal complement.

Inferus is probably one of the best people to ask about this, he's mad for it.

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Thanks for the quick reply

“	Originally Posted By: SunWuKung BJJ is quite distinct from TJJ,	”

BJJ does look interesting, but it is hard to find where i live unless I take up MMA which im not really interested in. There is lots of Judo and TJJ around though. I am interested in ground work, but i would like a few throws aswell

“	Inferus is probably one of the best people to ask about this, he's mad for it.	”

I noticed! Im hoping for the judo point of view from him

You edited so Ill reply again!

“	Originally Posted By: SunWuKung I had a similair problem, wanting to try and learn some grappling skills myself, so I went to a JJ class and a Jujitsu class. The latter was more akin to TMA, more drill oriented and focussing on locks and so forth	”

Thats interesting, a few jujitsu people have come to my class and I got the impression that some of the stuff we did was similar, so maybe i should try judo because its different

djs : "so maybe i should try judo because its different"

it depends on who is teaching the jujitsu

there are all sorts of variations

basically judo can be thought of as a game that has been taken out of JJ

there are things that are not allowed in judo that are allowed in JJ

in fact there are something like 3000 techniques in JJ

it is a very comprehensive art

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a knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork, thats the way we spell new york

Ok, a bit of brief history regarding Judo/Ju Jitsu

Judo was created from some koryu of Ju Jitsu. It was created by Jigoro Kano from two forms of Ju Jitsu he was master of.

Basically, Judo was his attempt at making something a lot more applicable whilst being fun. In Ju Jitsu you have striking Atemi, leg locks, neck locks, spine locks, arm locks, throws, everything. In Judo you have just throws, armlocks and strangles.

This was because Jigoro believed these things to be safest when practiced at full resistance. In Judo, you will fight pretty much every lesson. Whether it be standing fighting (Tachi Waza) or ground fighting (Newaza), or full out contest fighting using both called 'Shiai'. For comparison, when I did Kung Fu, I had about 1 fight a month on average. In judo I have about 72 fights a month. In terms of learning how to apply what I know, this is a huge difference. Also, you'll soon see that you can try out some of your kung fu principles to throwing people. Certain footwork patterns may help you throw people :-) My ability to throw a really fast side kick has helped for a throw involving a very similar motion.

My opinion is that Judo groundwork is the exact same as BJJ minus a few things, just not practiced as much. This is a shame because it can be very affective. I'm planning on going back to a BJJ school near to my house in order to see how good my groundwork is now since starting Judo.

If you want to learn traditional Ju Jitsu, I would advise against this. Most forms of 'Ju Jitsu' taught today are bastardised versions of the original arts, and are trained inproperly!

Judo might at first appear far too sportive, and beyond use on a street situation. However, having that edge over someone on the ground, as well as having the ability to throw them on their head can be very handy. Someone measured the speed of a judo throw, and it's something like 50-60mph impact with the ground. Thats some impact on your body.

“	Originally Posted By: Wingnut djs : "so maybe i should try judo because its different" it depends on who is teaching the jujitsu there are all sorts of variations basically judo can be thought of as a game that has been taken out of JJ there are things that are not allowed in judo that are allowed in JJ in fact there are something like 3000 techniques in JJ it is a very comprehensive art	”

Chances are you won't get very good quality instruction in Ju Jitsu.

More techniques doesnt necessarily mean more expertise. How many techniques are in boxing, thai boxing? Are they affective with this limited number? :-)

“	Originally Posted By: Inferus Chances are you won't get very good quality instruction in Ju Jitsu.	”

On what basis do you say that?

“	Basically, Judo was his attempt at making something a lot more applicable whilst being fun.	”

Actually it was his attempt to take the "martial" out of ju jitsu so that he could legally continue to teach it, so he made it into a sport and removed the more dangerous applications. Therefore judo is no more applicable than classical ju jitsu.

“	If you want to learn traditional Ju Jitsu, I would advise against this. Most forms of 'Ju Jitsu' taught today are bastardised versions of the original arts, and are trained inproperly!	”

Again, where did you get this information?

The ju jitsu school in your neighborhood may not be very good but to lump all ju jitsu in with that, or with something you heard on the Internet, is pretty lame.

djstatika, if you are having a hard time deciding, the best thing to do is to look at every available judo & ju jitsu program in your area and see which one you, personally, like better. As Inferus shows, it's often more a matter of personal opinion than anything else.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl djstatika, if you are having a hard time deciding, the best thing to do is to look at every available judo & ju jitsu program in your area and see which one you, personally, like better. As Inferus shows, it's often more a matter of personal opinion than anything else.	”

Well I would normally preach this, but I just want to get a general idea to see if either are what im looking for. Its easy to go to 1 class and get the wrong idea of what they are about. E.g i might go on the one day they are teaching striking or something.

I think I will go and look at judo first. I think really what i am after is something where I can practice avoiding being thrown (I am not too bad at this, but it would be nice to be a bit better and manage to throw them first or whatever). Also I would quite like to know a bit about fighting on the ground, even if its just enough so I can escape and stand up again. Also it does sound fun on the surface, but that might be more down to the class

Agreed!

Judo is certainly one way to learn how to throw/avoid being thrown, and I had a lot of fun when I studied it.

From watching MMA matches it's clear there are other entry points for grappling/throwing a person that judo probably doesn't touch on, or approaches differently. Such as an opponent shooting in low, & how to do that successfully and/or how to counter it.

I had the opportunity to watch several classes before signing up for my art, so I saw different skills being taught & different levels of students and developed a good idea of what to expect. There's nothing wrong with asking if you can watch more than one class before deciding -- whatever you choose could be a lifelong pursuit so, why not?

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl Agreed! Judo is certainly one way to learn how to throw/avoid being thrown, and I had a lot of fun when I studied it. From watching MMA matches it's clear there are other entry points for grappling/throwing a person that judo probably doesn't touch on, or approaches differently. Such as an opponent shooting in low, & how to do that successfully and/or how to counter it. I had the opportunity to watch several classes before signing up for my art, so I saw different skills being taught & different levels of students and developed a good idea of what to expect. There's nothing wrong with asking if you can watch more than one class before deciding -- whatever you choose could be a lifelong pursuit so, why not?	”

Judo will touch on pretty much all possible ways of throwing that I have ever seen. In recent years Judo has become invaded by throws from Wrestling, Sambo/Sombo and BJJ's ground game. There is a big overlap!

Judo does have the low shooting leg grabs, look up "Morote Gari".

I only said that a good form of ju jitsu would be difficult to find, since I have it on good authority from a 10th dan in judo, who is currently writing a book about it and all the kata within, the history, basically a complete book about everything. He said that Ju Jitsu teachers teaching something that is a koryu (Ancient form of Ju Jitsu, such as Tenshin Ryu) and of good quality are very difficult to find!

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl From watching MMA matches it's clear there are other entry points for grappling/throwing a person that judo probably doesn't touch on, or approaches differently. Such as an opponent shooting in low, & how to do that successfully and/or how to counter it.	”

Does jujitsu often cover that? Nobody has ever succesfully taken me down like that. I know that this is because I havent fought anyone good at it (I think playing rugby helped aswell), but I think most martial arts teach upright takedowns and throws and i have definately been taken down like that a few times. Just as long as I can do something when im down there that will probably be enough for me

“	I had the opportunity to watch several classes before signing up for my art, so I saw different skills being taught & different levels of students and developed a good idea of what to expect. There's nothing wrong with asking if you can watch more than one class before deciding -- whatever you choose could be a lifelong pursuit so, why not?	”

Why just watch when you can have a go?! Most places round here you dont have to sign up on lesson 1, you can have a lesson or a few to see if you like it first

inf : "If you want to learn traditional Ju Jitsu, I would advise against this. Most forms of 'Ju Jitsu' taught today are bastardised versions of the original arts, and are trained inproperly!"

please stop with the sweeping generalisations

i have visited three (count them 1 2 3) very good JJ skools just in leeds alone

one of which i trained at for a while

as far as i am aware there are no kata in traditional JJ (i could be wrong)

the kata are usually from another discipline tacked on

judo can be seen as a subsection of JJ

a more freindly way of teaching principles

but really leaving out the juicy bits

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a knife, a fork, a bottle and a cork, thats the way we spell new york

Go for the Ju Jitsu don't limit yourself

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If the road that you are on brought you here then what good is the road?

The whole "what Judo leaves out" thing brings us back to our recurring, and oft-heated discussion of 'deadly' techniques and what-have-you that cannot be trained in a 'real' (i.e. fully resistant, open-ended) manner vs. 'limited' techniques that are 'merely' for sport that are constantly and aggressively trained against fully resisting, well-trained, physically committed opponents.

There may be a fundamental philosophical difference of opinion regarding these that could inform the choice in question here.

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893