Chinese Fast Wrestling for Combat

Has anyone read this book? Here are some reviews

__________________

Shou-Yu Liang puts out some pretty good stuff.

yeah I've got it. It's a pretty good book - but without direct experience of the teacher, I can't vouch for it's validity. As MA books goes, it's pretty good.

__________________
Cling to nothing, except your Lego...

“	Originally Posted By: SunWuKung yeah I've got it. It's a pretty good book	”

yup...
same here

has some good stuff...

Chief108

__________________

“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

Someone on the review said it's similar to judo so if anyone wants any advice on how certain techniques etc are performed, I will do my best to either provide advice, or to get you the advice from my judo teacher

Yup, judo is suspiciously similar to shuai jiao.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

Well theres only so many ways of throwing someone, and if I am reading the intent of your post correctly Sammy, then it is hard to say for certain what came first. Chinese wrestling, Traditional Koryu Ju Jitsu, Or maybe even pankration from the greeks

To be honest I don't see why people have to segregate themselves so much (Not that I am accusing you of elitism or anything ). I am not ashamed to admit my art is very similar to BJJ, Shuai Chiao, Ju Jitsu, Aikido and wrestling. I can explain why it is different, but also why it is similar. Maybe people have a certain stereotype about people who participate in these different martial arts, like that BJJ'ers are all skinhead thugs. I think all MA'ists are a stereotype, but not individual arts. We all seek skills to be able to use our bodies better, and to have fun whilst doing so, why does the name of which matter!

I am always open to a chit chat about the technicalities about a throwing/locking technique, and things like Aikido/Chin Na interest me greatly. If anyone wants to have a convo about it, send me a pm and I'll be happy to.

Yes ... it was a mild joke. Similarities are there because as you say there are only so many ways of throwing people, only so many fulcrum points.

Talking technical details, especially with throwing, drives me nuts. I prefer doing it to talking, action over reading about it, ya know?

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

If I'm not taken wrong, then one part of "Chinese fast wrestling" should be FAST WRESTLING, that is the manouvres you do to quickly take control over the others body and find entries via rotating/grappling with the forearms and hands around/with the forearms of the other person. Don't know if that is a part of the book, it's basically the inherent foundation of stuff like Taiji, Bagua and similar grappling in various styles, the leading into locks and throws. Don't know if that is addressed much, in what you see around. Takes a good amount of practice, and I definetly don't see much if any of this in your typical "Taiji push hands competition".

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

IMO most push hands competitors take the word "push" way too literally.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

My impression is they take it as stationary-feet rather than push-hands. I see most often two people (m/f) standing for the whole time in one place with one arm around each other trying to boss toss the other off the mat (which doesn't work because of the position and bracing of both), or, which is then the bread and butter action, pull the other over the leg schoolyard-style. Which is NOT chinese good wrestling, let alone "fast".

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

Sounds like what you are refering to is one of these Nik...

http://judoinfo.com/images/animation...hizaguruma.htm
http://judoinfo.com/images/animation...rikomiashi.htm

“	Originally Posted By: Nik My impression is they take it as stationary-feet rather than push-hands. I see most often two people (m/f) standing for the whole time in one place with one arm around each other trying to boss toss the other off the mat (which doesn't work because of the position and bracing of both), or, which is then the bread and butter action, pull the other over the leg schoolyard-style. Which is NOT chinese good wrestling, let alone "fast".	”

Sounds like you're talking about shuai jiao, not taiji push hands.

TJ push hands has 2 common rule sets: fixed-step and moving-step. Sometimes moving-step is limited. No grabbing or throwing. Just trying to unbalance from 1 contact point (the arms). Sometimes 2 (hand contacting the elbow).

The 1 SJ competition I've seen, the competitors mostly did as you described and it was strange and boring. It was also a rare thing to see; 4 competitors were from a single team from South Africa, and 1 competitor was from China, a 40-ish fellow. When the Chinese man's turn came to compete (he wore a silk TJ uniform not a SJ vest), he grabbed his opponent's lapels, dropped into a wide horse stance, and executed a perfect hip throw. And got a warning from the judges. Then he did 3 fast, nice throws that left his opponent dizzy. Warning every time.

He finally found a translator to ask the judge why he kept getting warnings and the judge said, "You're not doing SJ, that's judo." The Chinese guy said something pretty loud that the translator didn't care to repeat, and stalked off.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

I'm describing german PH tournaments, one was a "world-championship". And btw, it was the pedestrian version of this Judo throws, over the other leg (i.e. a malformed hip throw, not over the hip but the leg, like people do on schoolyard fighting).

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

OK, that's different. And it's taiji push hands? Or just called push hands?

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...