Entry & Exit

A couple of thread discussions got me thinking, and then I had a couple of pints of Guinness, and you know what happens after that. Anyway -- the thread talking about shuai jiao and judo and similarities/differences got me thinking about the variations in styles. And then Adam Yanqui in this thread said

“	Then you have to think about the position you'll be after the technique.	”

People with wrestling/grappling experience on the forum talk about effective "entry" -- getting a good hold on their opponent so they can do their techniques most effectively. Adam's comment got me thinking about "exit" -- where you will be after a technique, or after breaking contact with an opponent, etc.

So I thought, perhaps stylistic variations occurred because fighters were trying to find effective/relatively safe entry points, and relatively safe exit points. And everyone was looking for an edge so, in TMA even though the laws of physics are no different from any other fighting art, noticeable structure & style differences occur.

What is a commonly used "entry" in your particular martial art, and how do you end up after the entry/attack sequence? Facing the opponent? Back to the opponent? Rex Kwon Do? (break the wrist ... and walk away...)

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

One of the things that attracted me to Wing Chun was the persistance of attack. There's no series of strikes, exit and see what happens. It's very much ENGAGE- FINISH HIM!
Entry is a bridge, a good Wing Chun practitioner will seek a bridge in any situation and capitalise on whatever it is through immeadiately closing the range and a blinding and constant array of attacks. Exit is you standing over the other fella while he lies on the floor bleeding! (Hopefully)


Gosh I feel like such a fraud- I haven't trained since before Christmas with this ridiculous broken wrist! Grrrrrrr!!

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We different levels of entry I guess...

There is the entry of getting a grip and then there is the entry from within the grip, to do some form of throwing technique. It's kind of like a ladder, you can't do a big throwing technique without the smaller entry. (Whether it be a footsweep or just change of grips)

These are good responses so far -- each style with its own view and strategy. Inferus, can you give an example of a small or a big entry? And FF, an example of a bridge?

And a broken arm is not a fraud -- now you can put on your school shirt and hang out at bars in your cast going "yeah, I took out like 3 big attackers but the other 6 got a hold of this arm, ya know. I'm OK though." And the women will swoon.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

wing chun entry is the most direct route through to your opponent weak points

if somebody strikes with a straight arm

then the arm gets it

come in with a kick the leg gets it

too many variations to go into

to put it simply we use the idea of a straight line

that runs from my center line to my opponents

attacks/entries will usually follow that line

exits ?

dunno about that

at a guess not dropping your awareness of your opponent(s)

if you disengage

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“	Originally Posted By: FightingFat Entry is a bridge, a good Wing Chun practitioner will seek a bridge in any situation and capitalise on whatever it is through immeadiately closing the range and a blinding and constant array of attacks. Exit is you standing over the other fella while he lies on the floor bleeding! (Hopefully)	”

Very similair to to us, though we don't always look to bridge, sometimes we just smash our way into/through them, depending it's either straight in or applying sticky body and working around them hitting multiple angle/gates and smashing them into the ground.

“	Gosh I feel like such a fraud- I haven't trained since before Christmas with this ridiculous broken wrist! Grrrrrrr!!	”

Bah, a perfect time to train one handed to see how that works for you.

I've trained that way, it improves your perception/skills.

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

“	Originally Posted By: Wingnut exits ? dunno about that at a guess not dropping your awareness of your opponent(s) if you disengage	”

That's part of it, but what physical positioning do you undertake to maintain that awareness?

For example, in sparring we are constantly told "don't turn your back to an opponent," for one thing, we can't see our opponent, for another thing, we can't defend as well. So we have a mechanism for, if the opponent gets behind us, turning around quickly while being able to defend.

So, an "exit" is placing yourself in a good position at the end of a technique to either (a) deliver the next technique, (b) defend a counterattack, (c) maintain awareness, or (d) escape.

Let's say you slip into an opponent's guard through an entry technique (grab his sleeve, whatever), and then do a big hip throw. What is your body position at the end of the technique? Where is your focus? Does this position and focus (awareness) give you an advantage over your opponent? Are you safe from a second opponent in this position?

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

Wing Chun (or my sifu) conduct drills to enter, bridge, attack and exit to one - hand contact. Generally this is to make you aware of the properties of each striking range, particularly the vulnerabilities of breaking to kicking range.

Generally speaking, when breaking to kicking range and beyond, we maintain a loose bridge on one of their limbs in order to sense any changes in balance resulting from priming a kick. We also try to take a side stance to reduce the target size for the aggressors free side.

As FF says , we would generally enter and finish - although I think this strength is also a key weakness, if you enter and fail to finish, you're in a bad place - and one of the reasons I'd like to supplement with some grappling/wrestling training.

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I go to the exit when the other guy is dead. Okay, ICU counts too. I was exposed to a philosophy that does not leave space for counteraction, you act continuously without giving up the advantage to the end. Literally.

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ICU is for wimps!!!

Your philosophy is no problem. When I'm talking about "exit" it's not just finishing or breaking contact and leaving (it can be). An exit can be how you are set up for a transition to the next logical move. Or it can literally be the transition.

Beginning mantis players are often taught 1-2-3. 1-block incoming move. 2-divert/control. 3-move in and attack. At the end of that sequence the player's position is close in to the attacker, usually controlling a limb, with a free hand that just delivered one strike.

This is the exit point of that sequence. The next sequence depends on where you are at the exit point in relation to the opponent. Inside or outside? Controlling a limb or not? Where are your feet?

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

I am 100% in agreement with Nik on this one.

Jeff(fuzzy30)

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When I did Jujutsu after every technique, were the opponent was supposedly maimed, we would back away, cautiosly, facing the opponent, ready for another attack.

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“	Originally Posted By: Hero When I did Jujutsu after every technique, were the opponent was supposedly maimed, we would back away, cautiosly, facing the opponent, ready for another attack.	”

Aye, I did much the same while doing such...


What did you think about that?

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

Me too after my 'Kung Fu / Ju Jitsu' experience.

The way a Judo entry is, it is hard to explain.

If we put a judo fight into what I call 'levels' then I can probably explain it easier.

Level 0 means no contact whatsoever
Level 1 is a single handed or a poor grip
Level 2 is having a dominant grip and the possibility of throwing
Level 3 is having an opponent in a good position to be thrown
Level 4 is executing a technique

Judo is really interesting when both people get to level 2/3 and just stay there for a long time, constantly changing grip and attacking each other. A bit like Boxing when people are clinching and slugging away.

When people start getting tired at levels 2/3 then they begin to lose grips and slide back down the chain of gripping til they eventually break.

(I made this up to kind of explain a judo fight, it isn't the exact principles of judo although it does follow them)

SG brought up a very good point.... inside or outside? This alone will give and take away options from either side.

Entry and exit could be viewed the same for us. It could be just the shoulder raising, and for some reason our wrist will twitch. We could be engaged and our wrist will twitch on the way out.

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