thinking of giving up wing chun..........

I’ve never been in that situation of wanting to all together change, though I have picked up other fighting arts to enhance overall training, with good results and probably because they compliment or are so different in style/technique, I don’t worry about the body memory cross over. The other thing is that I feel I have a lifetime of material to cover with current training - and my main art has become part of my daily life which I would not want to do without. For me, the depth of the material keeps me busy and satisfies + I love it. If you need a change and aren’t quite getting what you hope for, then by all means, life is too short… I did that with jobs, definitely taking financial risks to find what I now love. On the other hand, I’ve known of people who have amassed a lot of knowledge and great fighting skills from doing many arts, interweaving them. Just follow your heart and listen to your body. Good luck!

thanks

i think there are things that will follow on from wing chun

certainly the ability to turn muscles on and off at will in the arms will be beneficial

but i'm finding the weapons aspect of escrima facinating at the moment

also the takedowns in both escrima and JJ

will be interesting what exactly i retain

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Ha! I'm actually going through exactly the same thing! My training has some holes and I can't decide between MMA or Escrima....I've actually pretty much decided to go with MMA, but it's still kind of hard choice.

I got some advice a while back that might help. I was thinking about leaving my school, but I have a lot of loyalty to my sifu so I was conflicted. My friend Jon told me this, "Do whatever you like and don't feel bad what others may think. Martial arts is one area of your life you should feel free to be totally selfish with. There's very little practical use for this stuff, so if you don't love what you're doing, don't be afraid to change."

I paraphrased that quite a bit, but the message is the same.

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1. Research your own experience
2. Absorb what is useful
3. Reject what is useless
4. Add what is essentially your own

I have gone through exactly what you are Pope. I used to practice Okinawa Kenpo Karate. A very Hard/Hard/Soft Style (I say that because even the soft techniques where designed to break/destroy). I walked away from that for the last time 2 weeks before I eft for Korea (about a year and a half ago). Now I study Choy Lee Fut. Very different.

This is nothing against your school or any other style of wing chun:

I read the first few posts, but not the whole thing. Are you wanting to get into grappling, or is it that you haven't learned how to properly counter grappling? Wing chun is a complete martial art; but sometimes you have to look to find the answers, simply because no matter how much one thinks about situations, something is always forgotten. This is a passage from the book "Modern Training Methods of Wing Chun - Volume I: The Wooden Dummy." Karl Godwin is talking about his sifu, Ken Werner:

“	The focus of the study was always directed to the depth of the art...If there was a problem with an application, we would go back to chi sao and spend weeks, sometimes months, cultivating enough stability in the legs and sensitivity in the arms to solve the dilemma...Even if you ended up on the ground, there was a wing chun solution.	”

I removed a few uneeded statements. But, Karl's (and Mr. Werner's) answers to grappling are very effective and simple.

This is nothing against the school or your decision, just an afterthought for you. I think it's all too common that people think their art, which many times happens to be complete, doesn't have the answers to a situation they were looking for. It seems in wing chun this is more apparent, as many schools like to teach it in conjunction with escrima and a strictly grappling art. In my school, we learn the sticks with a wing chun mentality as well, the "one sound" concept.

Nick

By the way, are martial arts styles capitalized in proper grammar? I was never really sure of it.

lag : "By the way, are martial arts styles capitalized in proper grammar? I was never really sure of it."

me niether



to answer your questions

i have studied wing chun for 5 years at a very intensive level

the skool i went to is very good

and has some people of great skill

i think i can best sum up my mentallity with

why reinvent the wheel?

i actually dont agree that wing chun is a complete art

it just likes to think it is

one lesson in BJJ showed that to me in big flashing lights

also the weapons aspect of escrima is incomparable to that of wing chun

please understand i mean no offence to wing chun players

jsut for my own developement its not the direction i wish to go

if you want to learn grappling or effective weapons

why not go to the source?

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

“	Originally Posted By: Pope_Wingnut lag : "By the way, are martial arts styles capitalized in proper grammar? I was never really sure of it." me niether to answer your questions i have studied wing chun for 5 years at a very intensive level the skool i went to is very good and has some people of great skill i think i can best sum up my mentallity with why reinvent the wheel? i actually dont agree that wing chun is a complete art it just likes to think it is one lesson in BJJ showed that to me in big flashing lights also the weapons aspect of escrima is incomparable to that of wing chun please understand i mean no offence to wing chun players jsut for my own developement its not the direction i wish to go if you want to learn grappling or effective weapons why not go to the source?	”

I do agree, and no offense taken. If you want to learn grappling, go to a grappling school. If you want to learn weapons, go to a primarily weapons training school, and escrima would surely be on the top of that list. If you are just looking for answers to those styles, I believe it's in all complete arts. I believe wing chun is complete, so I would have to disagree there. I have done some grappling, but I don't use it in a ground match, and I am not afraid to go to the ground if I have to. My wing chun still comes with me to the ground. Chi sao still applies down there. And, I was always partial to the wing chun weapons.

By the way, why is it that we have to tread lightly when discussing martial arts? Discussions always seem like someone is going to be offended. I think we should just discuss. I won't be offended, I promise. And, in a discussion forum, I don't think anyone should be.

Nick

Wingy...you need to keep up your WC skills, you never know when you might run across a pissed off sissy and have to slap fight him.

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

“	Originally Posted By: Lagartixa Are you wanting to get into grappling, or is it that you haven't learned how to properly counter grappling? Wing chun is a complete martial art; but sometimes you have to look to find the answers,	”

Hmmmm, this is where WC runs into trouble, IMO. The way to counter grappling is to "get into" grappling. The whole "everything is in WC" thing does not lend it credibility outside of WC circles.

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare Hmmmm, this is where WC runs into trouble, IMO. The way to counter grappling is to "get into" grappling. The whole "everything is in WC" thing does not lend it credibility outside of WC circles.	”

I think the problem is, that wing chun doesn't get the depth it deserves, mostly because it's a fairly new addition to the popular martial arts world, and people sometimes don't look deeper in the concepts. I have trained with grapplers; my sihing was in a Royce Gracie academy before he came to my school, and not only would he show us to use wing chun concepts to counter grappling, but he would bring some of his old fellow students from the school, which was right across the street, to help us train our anti grappling courses. If I go to the ground, I use wing chun, not grappling, because that's playing into his game, not mine. The answers lie in the centerline theory and the golden rules of wing chun, along with the chi sao cultivation. Wing chun is a complete art, just like many systems. But you have to train everything. Like I said, I'm not afraid to go to the ground, and will if I have to. You don't have to learn to grapple in order to counter it, but you can't be afraid to go to the ground, either.

Nick

Yeeeeaaaah, "WC on the ground" and "anti-grapple" and "you don't have to grapple to deal with grappling" are all WC mantras that you won't find many outside of WC buying into I'm afraid.

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare Yeeeeaaaah, "WC on the ground" and "anti-grapple" and "you don't have to grapple to deal with grappling" are all WC mantras that you won't find many outside of WC buying into I'm afraid.	”

Actually, these are many things you won't find INSIDE most lineages of wing chun. Like I said, the answers were there, and time was spent for weeks, sometimes months, looking for the answers. But they were there.

Arguing this with someone who just made a statement like yours is pointless. You refuse to understand anything I have stated. I am not training at the moment because I have moved, but my school in Jacksonville, FL always welcomes challenges. Heck, you are invited to take one class for free first, if you so choose. We let our hands do the talking, and afterwards, there are no hard feelings and as long as the challenger is respectable, they are welcome to hang around after the challenge.

Either way, I'm sorry that my post on how my lineage has been doing things is so offensive. I am trying to explain things in the most respectable way possible, yet eventually, EVERYTHING in martial arts is always going to upset someone at one point or another.

Nick

Some of my friends have said I have an unhealthy fascination for wing chun. Anyway, are you going to the Atlanta DL meetup? I have not yet gone, but I would love to!

I probably won't go, since I live in Central Florida now, and it's a heck of a drive, further complicated by the current gas prices and my still being on a modest student income. Is that as far south as they come?

Nick