Kung Fu-The Art of Misnomer

“	Originally Posted By: 47MartialMan You cant get closer to a source as everything out there is a far cry. At least with Japanese systems, they are a lot closer....	”

Closer to what?

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

Closer in comparison

Shaolin, and Wudang, could probably be dircribed best as live in Religious Universities. They where geared for spiritual enrichment and growth. But like all universities just because they are geared towards something doesnt mean they are closed off to everything else. And do to the chaos of the time, and in some case the types of people who would study and retire there (generals and soldiers of the like) would bring what they have learned into the fold. Both physical, spiritual and mental.

“	Originally Posted By: Green_Horn Shaolin, and Wudang, could probably be dircribed best as live in Religious Universities. They where geared for spiritual enrichment and growth. But like all universities just because they are geared towards something doesnt mean they are closed off to everything else. And do to the chaos of the time, and in some case the types of people who would study and retire there (generals and soldiers of the like) would bring what they have learned into the fold. Both physical, spiritual and mental.	”

Indeed. But would it be "Authentic/Original Shaolin Kung Fu'?

“	Originally Posted By: 47MartialMan Closer in comparison	”

In comparison to what?? Say it man... don't just hang it out there. If you've got something to compare X to Y with, let's hear it.

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

“	Originally Posted By: 47MartialMan Indeed. But would it be "Authentic/Original Shaolin Kung Fu'?	”

Indeed it would, the Shaolin MA concept is to adapt, learn, improve and grow.
So, for the exceptions of Bei Shaolin and Lohan which are strictly Shaolin, the majority of the styles that popped out were compilations from this and that added into the Shaolin soup to create new flavor.

if you learnt to cook at shaolin and nothing else

you could possess 'authenitic shaolin kung fu'

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

LOL ... true!

The "funny/ironic" part of your statement is there is a legend of a cook at Shaolin who defended the temple from a warlord's army.

While I believe the "original" Shaolin kung fu is not found in any form (lohan would be the oldest known and maybe closest but it doesn't go back as far as Damo), the basis of Shaolin can be found in the basic exercises of all derivative styles. The supposed root of the basic exercises was recorded in "Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic" written by Damo. He wrote another Classic but both books were lost long ago. But the exercises contained within were/are practiced daily by all the monks at the temple, not for martial skill but to keep the body strong.

So much has been added, changed, pared down, etc. over the centuries. Not just by continued practice and the natural changes that creep in, but by new ideas & skills brought in by new monks. Many of whom were former military officers retiring to a quiet life (or hiding, etc.) who added their skills & experience.

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“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl LOL ... true! The "funny/ironic" part of your statement is there is a legend of a cook at Shaolin who defended the temple from a warlord's army.	”

Jinnalu Wang... An Indian cook who gave us the famous Shaolin "Hero's Pose" & now resides in the mountain directly behind the temple as a guardian spirit.

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl While I believe the "original" Shaolin kung fu is not found in any form (lohan would be the oldest known and maybe closest but it doesn't go back as far as Damo), the basis of Shaolin can be found in the basic exercises of all derivative styles. The supposed root of the basic exercises was recorded in "Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic" written by Damo. He wrote another Classic but both books were lost long ago. But the exercises contained within were/are practiced daily by all the monks at the temple, not for martial skill but to keep the body strong.	”

True...

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl So much has been added, changed, pared down, etc. over the centuries. Not just by continued practice and the natural changes that creep in, but by new ideas & skills brought in by new monks. Many of whom were former military officers retiring to a quiet life (or hiding, etc.) who added their skills & experience.	”

Very important this idea & fact, but too many people view it as "Shaolin" dating back to time immemorial or found only at the temple by austere practice as opposed to going "Hey.... that looked cool. Show it to me..." much of the time. Or more from what I hear, the lay residents making comments more about how much technique blew chunks (especially the stick work) & refining the Shaolin wu seng technqiues.

__________________
Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
********
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

“	Originally Posted By: Mei Hua Indeed it would, the Shaolin MA concept is to adapt, learn, improve and grow. So, for the exceptions of Bei Shaolin and Lohan which are strictly Shaolin, the majority of the styles that popped out were compilations from this and that added into the Shaolin soup to create new flavor.	”

BUT- is it "Authentic/Original Shaolin Kung Fu"?

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl LOL ... true! The "funny/ironic" part of your statement is there is a legend of a cook at Shaolin who defended the temple from a warlord's army. While I believe the "original" Shaolin kung fu is not found in any form (lohan would be the oldest known and maybe closest but it doesn't go back as far as Damo), the basis of Shaolin can be found in the basic exercises of all derivative styles. The supposed root of the basic exercises was recorded in "Muscle/Tendon Changing Classic" written by Damo. He wrote another Classic but both books were lost long ago. But the exercises contained within were/are practiced daily by all the monks at the temple, not for martial skill but to keep the body strong. So much has been added, changed, pared down, etc. over the centuries. Not just by continued practice and the natural changes that creep in, but by new ideas & skills brought in by new monks. Many of whom were former military officers retiring to a quiet life (or hiding, etc.) who added their skills & experience.	”

Indeed.....close to understanding what is "Authentic/Original Shaolin Kung Fu"

“	Originally Posted By: 47MartialMan BUT- is it "Authentic/Original Shaolin Kung Fu"?	”

DOES IT REALLY MATTER!? Authentic shaolin means that it takes what works and keeps on trucking. Authentic shaolin is exercise with the nearly Vow tenent to avoid Harming a living thing (a Buddhist tenet). I have dreamed my whole life that I would learn Shaolin Tiger and Shaolin Dragon. But when I became an adult I realized how difficult that dream was. And after doing some research and discovering that most the shaolin styles had been being past on to non-shaolin for 50 plus years before I was born I resided myself to learning as close as I could get. To the originals. Choy Lee Fut is not an "Authentic Shaolin" system. Though the founder was trained by 3 different Shaolin Monks and was the only teachers he had. Doesnt make it authentic Shaolin just gives it some history.

“	Originally Posted By: clfsean Jinnalu Wang... An Indian cook who gave us the famous Shaolin "Hero's Pose" & now resides in the mountain directly behind the temple as a guardian spirit.	”

The founder of Shaolin Mei Hua Chuan

“	47MartialMan BUT- is it "Authentic/Original Shaolin Kung Fu"?	”

Try reading again, I gave you your answer the first time

i do believe

that

he believes

that

he is making a point about something

but

what he believes that point is about

only he seems to know

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Indeed, and I gave him the answer that he sought, but for some reason that only he knows, he couldn't understand it