it was a bulk post to the whole engineering department
dont know the guy who sent it (yet)
so it was pretty wierd to get it
its an article from inside kung fu from 1994
RARE PUNCHES YIP MAN
FORGOT TO TEACH
By Dave Carter
Had Bruce Lee been taught several rare wing chun punching techniques, he might
not have needed to create jeet kune do.
If Bruce Lee had known that there are actually two more ways of punching in the
wing chun kung-fu system, he might not have needed to look elsewhere for
answers to his fighting questions. As the story goes, Lee was a young upstart
in San Francisco when he was challenged by an established master. Lee used his
'wing chun gung-fu', as he called it, but found it was too limiting to do the
job. Subsequently, he entered his experimental stage which eventually led to
the creation of jeet kune do. Lees's main complaint was that while plenty of
his punches landed, few connected with the kind of force necessary to quickly
end a fight.
More than one
According to grandmaster Dr. Leung Ting's WingTsun theories, the straight punch
in WingTsun (wing chun) is the most popular attacking movement among all
attacking strikes, but it is not the only punch in the system, as many continue
to believe
"The problem is that during the lifetime of grandmaster Yip Man, he rarely gave
deep explanations to his students in the common classes," Dr. Leung related.
"You know, grandmaster Yip Man was a very traditional kung-fu instructor," he
added. "In his way of thinking, if the students did not measure up to a certain
standart to make him feel that they should be taught more about the
application, he would not even explain to them the meaning or various functions
of certain special movements."
"Also, the traditional wing chun concepts stressed a free-form approach to
learning and free use of the techniques so the practitioner could adapt to
myriad attacks. Therefore, wing chun instructors normally did not advocate a
systematic way of teaching their students. Most traditional wing chun
instructors either adopted a personal method or one that was accepted by their
students."
Leaving out something
This method worked fine in another era when wing chun teachers accepted only a
few disciples who remained with them a minimum of ten years. However, since
grandmaster Yip Man became the first wing chun instructor to ever formally try
to make a living from teaching martial arts, discrepancies occurred over time.
Because of the "free" way of teaching, it was not uncommon for those with
bigger classes to forget what techniques already had been covered.
Subsequently, some students were taught complete sets while others only
received portions of the complete curriculum.
This explains why so many top Yip Man students maintain, "I am the only one who
had even learned this secret technique. No was else was taught what I know."
One of those students was Bruce Lee, who contended since he was only taught one
straight punch that the wing chun system did not contain more. "The late
grandmaster hardly provided explanation to his students that there was more
than one way of punching," Dr. Leung Ting noted. "Further we cannot exclude the
possibility that the late grandmaster even forgot to explain to most of his
students the application of the rare punching techniques, even though they
always have been part of the system's sets as Chum Kiu and Bil Tze."
"If the student did not measure up to a certain standard to make (Yip Man) feel
they should be taught more about the application, he would not even explain to
them the meaning of certain special movements."
"Even before I learned from grandmaster Yip Man, I also thought there were only
two punches in the wing chun system (e.g., the straight punch in all the three
kung-fu sets and the lifting punch in the middle section of the Chum Kiu set).
It was not until I became his personal student that I discovered an additional
hooking punch in the Bil Tze set."
"Due to this bad experience, when I started to teach in 1967, I felt that I had
to change some of the traditional ideas or I would not be great in the future,"
Dr. Leung explained. "Actually, I did not change the traditional wing chun
fighting concept; I only modified the teaching method and created a brand new
grading system. And most importantly, I have enriched some of the techniques in
the teaching courses to include the "missing" or "secret" techniques once
through only to be known by a few men."
"I have also improved a few techniques so they could be applied not only against
Chinese kung-fu opponents, but also for practitioners of any system.
(Note:Before wing chun was introduced to the Western world, its purpose was to
face those who practised only kung-fu.) To differentiate my system from the
traditional varieties, I called it 'WingTsun'," he added.
Three methods
WingTsun consists of three different punching methods: the straight punch, the
lifting punch, and the hooking punch. Since the straight punch is applied all
the time, it appears in all three kung-fu sets and is the system's most useful
punching method.
The straight punch - (The character "sun" thrusting punch)
The "yat gi chung kuen" or character "sun" thrusting punch is the most important
attacking movement in WingTsun. It is unique in the exertion of force compared
to the straight punches of other martial arts. In launching a WingTsun straight
punch, the main source of power is the elbow. There is a motto for the correct
way of launching a WingTsun straight punch: "Keep the elbow at the centreline
while you are launching a straight punch."
The first is pushed outward by a kind of special force called "explosive force".
A good comparison is the firing of a cannon. The fist is the cannon ball, and
the arm is like a rope with one end tied to the cannon ball, while the other is
connected to the base (shoulder).
To make a powerful straight punch, you should also, "Not tighten up the muscles
while you're punching." Tightening up the muscles is a big mistake for anyone
seeking power. Although it may feel like tighter means of power, it is just an
illusion. According to the WingTsun theory, a powerful punch is "a punch that
lands on the opponent and causes him strong damage", so it is the opponent who
feels the power and not the attacker.
Scientifically, it is the "extensors" (e.g., the triceps, etc.) which are
responsible for giving a straight punch its power, not the "contractors" (e.g.,
the biceps). Therefore, if a man tightens up his muscles while launching a
punch, it's like someone who tries to accelerate a car by putting on foot on
the gas paddle and the other on the brake.
"We cannot exclude the possibility that the late grandmaster even forgot to
explain to most of his students the application of the rare punching
techniques."
There are three ways to use a straight punch.
1. The chain punch. The chain punch is regarded as the most practical and best
attacking technique in the WingTsun system. A chain punch is a combination of a
series of continuous alternating single punches. Once the left punch is
launched, the right fist is held several inches in front of a WingTsun
practitioner's chest waiting in an "on-guard" or ready position. When the left
punch is straight, the right punch immediately darts out to the same position.
At the same time the left hand withdraws and is placed in the original position
in front of the chest to fill the gap, ready to fire again. This kind of
alternate punching movements can be applied non-stop until the opponent is
felled.
The chain punches in WingTsun can be compared to a "machine gun" with a non-stop
attack. This is different from the single-punching way used by other martial
styles, which favour a "one-shot" pistol approach in which you have to load a
new bullet everytime.
2. The bouncing punch. At the end of the Chum Kiu set, there is a modified
punching method which is a continuous movement combined with a "Gum-Sao"
(pinning hand) and a straight punch. The action follows the downward Gum-Sao
movement, which is supposed to nullify a frontal kick from an opponent. The
defending hand then bounces up to form a half-arc and half-straight-line
thrusting punch onto the opponent's face.
According to WingTsun theories, no matter how fast you move, "one movement is
faster than two movements". Therefore, many WingTsun techniques are set to
either use two hands to defend and counterattack simultaneously, or apply one
continuous movement which normally takes a practitioner of other styles more
than one movement to complete (e.g., first use one hand to block and then
change to another hand to counterattack).
3. The double-punch. The double-punch is another modified punching method of the
straight punch in WingTsun. Different from the alternating chain punches, the
double-punch is applied at the same time with hands together landing separately
on two different positions.
There are two different types of double-punch. The most common is the "vertical
double-punch" in which a WingTsun man separately punches toward the upper and
middle, or the middle and lower positions of his opponent at the same vertical
midline of the front part of his opponent. This is different than the "combined
double-punch", a double-punch using two fists close together which land on the
same position (e.g., the pit of stomach). The double-punch is a modified
attacking technique converted from the double Gaan-Sao movement in the Bil Tze
set.
The lifting punch
Found in the middle section of the Chum Kiu set right after the three sideling
Bong-Sao is a rare attacking movement called the "lifting punch". It is quite
similar in shape to the uppercut in Western boxing. Unlike the uppercut, which
moves from a lower position to the middle part (e.g., stomach, abdomen, etc.)
or the higher position (e.g., lower jaw) of the opponent along a larger arc,
the lifting punch moves out along a smaller arc from the middle level (e.g.,
chest) to the lower jaw position. The force of the lifting punch is also quite
different from that of the uppercut.
The main source of the force comes from the turning stance combined with the
twisting and lifting-up movement of the spine which adds in the elbow movement
to "push" the fist along a small arc from down to up toward the lower jaw. The
lifting up of the whole upperbody weight with the quick turning action is a
main factor that forms a very powerful smashing force to crash up against the
lower jaw position, considered one of the weakest body points.
The lifting punch can be applied when the opponent's head is bent forward or at
the side of a WingTsun practitioner (e.g., when the opponent is dodging a
straight punch). It is difficult and ineffective for the WingTsun man to use
the straight punch to continue attacking his opponent. At this moment, a
lifting punch combined with a "neck-pulling hand" technique will become the
best technique to overcome the opponent.
The hooking punch
Other than the lifting punch, there is another rare attacking technique found in
the Bil Tze set. It is the "hooking punch" of the WingTsun system. Although the
hooking punch looks similar to a "hook" in Western boxing, it is different in
application of force. It is the turning of the stance plus the swinging
movement of the arm that combine to create a powerful smash to the ear.
There are also other variations of WingTsun punching techniques, for instance
the "nail punch". The "nail punch" is a special punching technique which
features the first joint of the first finger springing out to stab into the
weakest and softest positions (e.g., throat, pit of the chest, abdomen, etc.),
while the attacker's fist is landing on the opponent's body. The attack can be
fatal.
Inside Kung-Fu /cover story - august 1994/
so what d'yall fink of that?
__________________ "...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."
No time to read the whole thing, but I read it before it went into tecnique. Its actually something a friend and I talked about before, because Wing Chun seemed to have a really good concept...but it was like it was only half an art (at least what we had been exposed to). So the idea of Yip Man holding back or not teaching everything fully is something I could definitely see.
I also heard that he disliked teaching and the majority of the people he taught, but that at the time he was destitute and needed to eat. I don't know how true that is or if it played a role in the way he taught or not.
__________________
"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell
Yip Man held back much of his knowledge from many including his "closed door students". This is fact and it wouldn't come as a suprise if some of the jumbled information that was presented by Yip Man to his many students over the years lost its original meaning or was even forgotten. A few of the German "Wing Chun" teachers that I have met have stated that Yip Man did not teach WC in its totallity to any one student. Much was lost over the years because of this including WC's mobility, take downs, take down defenses, groundwork ect. This has been my observation through various seminars that I have attended by Leung Ting, Heinrich Pfaff and a few other WT practitioners that are no longer with the organization. Good post.
There is nothing mystical or rare about these punches.
If you learned chum kiu and bui gee then you should know these punching techniques and the structure behind them.
Originally
Posted By: Toi Dit Jo
Much was lost over the years because of this including WC's mobility, take downs, take down defenses, groundwork ect.
”
So you are saying that there used to be actual takedows, ground work, etc in wing chun? That doesnt seem to be consistent with the main focus of the system, or even bits of the article above...
So you are saying that there used to be actual takedows, ground work, etc in wing chun?
”
There are existing takedowns in WC as well as a skeleton and concepts for some limited groundwork. Nothing of actual effectiveness by todays standards but the elements are there. Seeing the system at work today has led me to believe that most of these elements are incomplete or have lost much of their original meaning. Just an opinion.
“
That doesnt seem to be consistent with the main focus of the system, or even bits of the article above...
”
I was making reference to the possibility of new ideas or "secrets" about the WC system being "discovered" or shared today. I'm not quite sure about the article or what it is trying to explain. It would be nice to see the explanations put into action.
About 134 secs in you can see examples of the wc uppercut using what looks like a leopard fist.
I used to train with a wc guy who used a lot of basic circular step sweep take downs. So the throws are definitely in there but this guy also insisted that the only punches where straight using a moon fist.
If you get hit with a Chum Kiu punch or Biu Gee punch obviously it would hurt, but like all punches you can stop them. Chum kiu punch is alot stronger then the punch in Siu Lim Tao because you are shifting and punching at the same time. The punches in Chum kiu are actually sun punches. So shift and punch. When you punch though you need to shift and punch at the same time and line up with correct structure or there won't be any power behind this punch.
The Biu Gee punch is the most powerful of all the punches in Wing Chun it uses whipping power developed obviously from the Biu Gee form. Basically your arm whips out from any direction it wants and pow like a whip. You really have to be relax and understand Siu Lim Tao and Chum Kiu because Biu Gee breaks all the rules of centerline theory. If you aren't relaxed then you will hurt your arm and the technique won't hurt anyone.
The only mystical thing about this is that I left out how to correctly structure yourself for power. When I say structure I mean you have to align your techniques to do them properly or they will suck. Your Sifu or whoever should be the one teaching you how to align yourself correctly I hope or they shouldn't be teaching at all because what is technique without proper structure? I hope this helps explain these punches.
Had Bruce Lee been taught several rare wing chun punching techniques, he might
not have needed to create jeet kune do.
”
I think it's safe to say that the guy who wrote that has no idea what the principle of JDK is... I fail to see how learning a few more punching techniques would render the concept of JKD obsolete.
__________________
Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."
There are at least 3 different kinds of use for the term JKD.
1) Jun Fan ( or original ) Jeet Kune Do. This is the group of people ( eg: guys like Ted Wong ) who practice and teach JKD exactly the same way it was taught in the 60's by Bruce. It's main core is in Bruce's modified Wing Chun.
2) Jeet Kune Do Concepts. This is the group of people like Dan Inosanto, who believe that JKD is something that is different for every student and must continue to change/evolve through time. Many people hear this and think JKD has no proper foundation or base which is not true. The base of JKD is called Jun Fan Kickboxing ( or Kung Fu ), and it is a defined system. Once a student has acceptable skills in Jun Fan Kickboxing, they will go on to build their own personal Jeet Kune Do.
3) your own personal Jeet Kune Do. This refers to an individual and his own personal way of training and experiencing MA. This does not necessarily mean you follow every principle of Jeet Kune Do Concepts ( because in JKD nothing is written in stone ). Therefore someone like this would never normally refer to their own "style" as JKD. They may have never even heard of the term, but are doing it in the same spirit. As Bruce said,
“
Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back.
”
as well as
“
If people say Jeet Kune Do is different from "this" or from "that," then let the name of Jeet Kune Do be wiped out, for that is what it is, just a name. Please don't fuss over it.
I tend to subscribe to #3. Jun Fan kickboxing was Bruce's personal JKD and in no way should set regulations or parameters for anything or anyone. I think Bruce would agree.
I think JKD is simply a philosophy and not a style.
I think what the modern MMA fighters are doing is as close to applied JKD philosophy as it can get...
__________________
Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."
Jun Fan kickboxing was Bruce's personal JKD and in no way should set regulations or parameters for anything or anyone.
”
I would say that Jun Fan Kickboxing is different from Bruce's personal JKD. It is important to remember that Jun Fan Kung Fu came first ( and started as modified non-classical Wing Chun ), before Bruce fully developed his philosophy of Jeet Kune Do.
JF Kickboxing is more about learning basics, building attributes and instincts, than setting boundaries and limitations.
The way Bruce taught it in the 60's, it was generally a blend of Boxing, Muay Thai, Wing Chun, and Savate. Takedowns were common but fighting on the ground was not contested as it is today. The way Dan Inosanto teaches JF Kickboxing today is a bit different. It is now more a blend of Boxing, MT, Kali & Silat, WC, BJJ and Shoot Wrestling.
I know that sounds like JKD anways. But, the main difference I would say, is that while you learn JF Kickboxing you are being guided by your teacher and shown different options and ideas while learning certain univeral basics of combat. When you are creating your own personal JKD blend, your instructor would encourage you to really question everything you have just been taught, and to really encourage you to decide truths for yourself.
“
I think JKD is simply a philosophy and not a style.
”
Of course. That was clearly defined by Bruce.
“
I think what the modern MMA fighters are doing is as close to applied JKD philosophy as it can get...
”
I totally agree with this. I am sure Bruce would be a big fan of the sport. Guys like Paul Vunak and Dan Inosanto changed/updated a lot of the material they teach after MMA got going. At the same time it also helped confirm a lot of other stuff they teach as good stuff.
The Tao of the Cage ? hehehe.
“
I tend to subscribe to #3
”
The idea is that #2 is just one way to get to #3 ( and one of the best ways IMO ).
Leung Ting made a LIVING out of claiming that he was this mysterious "late" indoor student who learned all the secrets that noone else knows or learned. For some strange reason, everytime established WC masters tried to confront him about it, he went out through the back door or the fire ladder because he had an important date he couldn't miss.
Other than that, you could find quite a couple of guys, from Yip Man or other lineages, who used other punches. I saw a Pan Nam WC guy doing something that looks like plain old hooks. Styles using winging punches like Choy Li Fut were all around the same area, so do you think they for some obscure reason would have refrained from using that ? They had their inside game to open lines, stun the other guy with that known short, compact strikes to throat and chin, and when the other guy WAS stunned and out of balance they lunged in finishing with long strikes that don't look different from boxing, or used stomp kicks.
__________________ "Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases) "Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne "Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.
). Therefore someone like this would never normally refer to their own "style" as JKD. They may have never even heard of the term, but are doing it in the same spirit. As Bruce said, 
