YOU- Realistically and often testing your skills.

Personally, I have to agree with Cam's opinion of showing video proof of skills.
Many CMA/TMAists say the exact same thing, why? Because the TMA world is full of bull**** and fantasy talk that often get proved as false and ineffective, it really isn't that hard to show some video of skills highlights to show what areas you and your style are strong in or how it deals with things.

Face it, back in the day, if a student came to you to learn how to fight, you had to show/prove to him that you could and could teach him the same, if you said I don't have to prove anything or show you my skills in the area you want to learn, you got laughed at and called a fraud.


In other words, talk is cheap and actions speak louder than words.

“	Originally Posted By: Seh Wait-- you talking about me or FRED?	”

FRED or Chuckles

Gotcha... I was like... I don't have incomprehension and lack of skill/knowledge of MA.

__________________
If the problem has a solution, worrying is pointless, in the end the problem will be solved. If the problem has no solution, there is no reason to worry, because it can't be solved.

Hi Anne, I looked at some tai-chi from one of your links. I have never seen the hesitation step that the master does before. Where he kind of stops and restarts near the beginning of a lot of moves? Can you explain that move to me?

(I am looking through the other stuff too and enjoying them thoroughly. Thanks)

Thanks
aaradia

__________________
I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

“	Originally Posted By: Mei Hua why? Because the TMA world is full of bull**** and fantasy talk that often get proved as false and ineffective, it really isn't that hard to show some video of skills highlights to show what areas you and your style are strong in or how it deals with things.	”

Mystic Joseph has videos...

__________________
If the problem has a solution, worrying is pointless, in the end the problem will be solved. If the problem has no solution, there is no reason to worry, because it can't be solved.

“	Originally Posted By: Seh Mystic Joseph has videos...	”

Indeed and that proves the point that MA's are full of **** talkers who lack skill and comprehension, unfortunately, many TMA players do and say the exact same and don't gain real understanding or true skill in their style and with fighting or whatever other aspect of their style it is they desire.

Not everyone trains to be a great fighter or even to fight, some do it because they love the art, the exercise, whatever, but the fact remains, if you're going to train to fight or use fighting skills, you had better make sure they will work under pressure against a non compliant partner because if they don't and you try that on t3h str33ts, you're gonna get your ass handed to you in an ugly fashion and it's your own fault for being the sucker.

Yeah, and fakers aren't Art specific.
They're anywhere and everywhere... it's really quite annoying, give the ones with actual skill (us), a bad name.

__________________
If the problem has a solution, worrying is pointless, in the end the problem will be solved. If the problem has no solution, there is no reason to worry, because it can't be solved.

Amen

Wow..... this thread took off while I was away.....!!!!!

“	There is jujitsu video of me somewhere, but I don't have it. There is a pretty awesome picture of me choking this one girl in a tournament, though:	”

Very nice, Anne. After the choke didn't work, you had a perfect elevator sweep set up from the half butterfly position you had. Did you sweep her? How did she wind up armbarring you?



Aaradia, you're not getting the thought process and maybe that was my fault. I should have put some space between the two thoughts. Let me try it again.... This is how it was meant...



I keep seeing people using the words "proof" and "prove"... Where is that coming from?
I think I know... Aaradia started off her first post here by saying she didn't have anything to prove....




Something else I find kind of strange.... for someone that doesn't have anything to prove her statement from the other thread

“	Just because others here keep saying I or others do not test our skills realistically over and over again does not make it true. SOME people here like to think they know all about every school in the world, even if they have never met anyone (teacher or student), have never been to the school, have not seen any of them practice, have not talked to the instructors to find out about the training etc. etc.	”

sure does sound like she's trying to prove something to someone...




There. That's a little better. It was actually two separate thought processes. I should have separated the two more-so. I was never trying to imply that the quote from another thread was a post that you made here.

“	Until then you don't know what you are talking about.	”

Yes I do... and the fact that you are reluctant to post a vid and even feel threatened by this thread to the point of incoherent off-topic ranting is evidence that I am correct in my assumptions.

“	Unless you ignored it the first 50 or 100 times and just got sick of it. Maybe someone posted "cam has black hair" on almost every single blessed thread, telling people they know nothing and are limited in their minds until they accept "Cam has black hair" on posts that have nothing to do with whether or not "Cam has black hair" and someone finally got sick of the person saying over and over again "cam has black hair". and you spoke up finally Saying "think Cam has black hair all you want, but STOP telling us to believe Cam has black hair over and over and over again on threads completly unrelated to that subject!!!"	”

OK.... based on the initial quote I posted from you and the one above, I take it you are under the impression that I have told you between 50-100 different times (in different threads, no less) that you do not test yourself and your art realistically enough and often enough. I challenge you to find me ...... heck, let's say 5 instances where I have said that to you. If there are 50-100 finding 5 should be rather easy.

This started because of what I posted in the thread by Bob where he asked for people to post techniques that they like to use. No one answered him and instead they all postulated hypothetical scenarios and made suggestions based on what their training had "taught them they should use" in those circumstances. No one, and I mean absolutely no one actually stated the techniques they like to use. I simply pointed out the fact that he wasn't going to get any solid answers because most of the people answering actually did not use their techniques and their training was mostly all theoretical supposition. He didn't ask what everyone "thought he should do in X situation". He asked what people like to use. When I pointed it out people got butt hurt by it... They start whining about me saying this or that and getting threads closed... yet everyone kept right on making hypothetical suggestions and not a single person ever stated a technique they like to use. That tells me a lot about the mindset and training of the people answering. I'm sorry that hurts your feelings. Then you make the statement that I can't possibly know because I haven't been there to witness it in person. I simply offered a simple, inexpensive and convenient way for me to witness it, by everyone posting vids here and sharing with everyone. And then for some reason you got all butt-hurt by that, too.

So.... Let's assume I made a post excitedly exclaiming that "some people here think my hair is black but they don't know what the hell they're talking about because they have never been to my house or talked to me or ate dinner with my cat". The people that think my hair is black would make a post saying "Hey, some people here are talking about their hair, so why don't we all post pics of our hair so we can all see what each other's hair looks like". What do you think I would do? Do you think I would immediately post a pic of my hair or would I get defensive and say, "F*** you!!!! You don't know me!!!! You don't know anything about my hair!!!! I don't need to prove anything to you!!!! ARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!".
Actually, just like FRED, it would take less time and effort just to post the dang pic/video than it would to sit down and type out all the bulls**t excuses of why I wasn't going to post it..... unless of course my hair was black and if I posted a pic I was gonna get called on it.........

Here's the bottom line... There is a fence and on one side are the doers and the other side are the talkers. There are hundreds of people on this forum that will not/can not post a video of themselves putting their art to the test. Guess what... they will probably not post in this thread at all. They definitely will not protest loudly and make excuses as to why they won't post a video. Why not? Because they don't want to expose themselves. They'd rather keep their mouth shut.

Now, if you train for the esoteric reasons and are simply lurking in this thread and reading and viewing for entertainment, then my hats off to you. If you train realistically and test your art then please post a vid so the rest of us can view it. If you don't train realistically and cannot post a vid but want to exclaim to the world why you can't or won't, then sit back and be content with yourself and rest assured the rest of us know what side of that fence you are on.

__________________
Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

“	There. That's a little better. It was actually two separate thought processes. I should have separated the two more-so. I was never trying to imply that the quote from another thread was a post that you made here.	”

Ok thanks for clarifying that.

“	OK.... based on the initial quote I posted from you and the one above, I take it you are under the impression that I have told you between 50-100 different times (in different threads, no less) that you do not test yourself and your art realistically enough and often enough. I challenge you to find me ...... heck, let's say 5 instances where I have said that to you. If there are 50-100 finding 5 should be rather easy.	”

That was a statement not about being to me specifically, but in general. And it really numbers in the hundreds when it comes down to that. The objection being when it takes over threads it that have nothing to do with it. Like the thread you mention below.

“	This started because of what I posted in the thread by Bob where he asked for people to post techniques that they like to use. No one answered him and instead they all postulated hypothetical scenarios and made suggestions based on what their training had "taught them they should use" in those circumstances. No one, and I mean absolutely no one actually stated the techniques they like to use. I simply pointed out the fact that he wasn't going to get any solid answers because most of the people answering actually did not use their techniques and their training was mostly all theoretical supposition. He didn't ask what everyone "thought he should do in X situation". He asked what people like to use. When I pointed it out people got butt hurt by it... They start whining about me saying this or that and getting threads closed... yet everyone kept right on making hypothetical suggestions and not a single person ever stated a technique they like to use. That tells me a lot about the mindset and training of the people answering. I'm sorry that hurts your feelings. Then you make the statement that I can't possibly know because I haven't been there to witness it in person. I simply offered a simple, inexpensive and convenient way for me to witness it, by everyone posting vids here and sharing with everyone. And then for some reason you got all butt-hurt by that, too.	”

Sigh, all addressed in that thread. Anyone who wants to follow up on that can go to that thread and read it. I am not going to repeat myself yet again on this thread about that one.

Except to say briefly that techniques were posted, just not to your satisfaction. And others found the things discussed there to be important in women defending themselves without knowing MA. To me, that was the important question in the thread. Your interpretation was different -fine. The part that is annoying is when you pester people into trying to answer to your definition and make accusations when they don't.

And, dude, I am not hurt. Annoyed yes, hurt, I have to care about your opinion of me for it to hurt, and quite frankly- I really don't. (I don't mean that statement to be rude BTW-just addressing your whole "hurt" thing.)

“	Actually, just like FRED, it would take less time and effort just to post the dang pic/video than it would to sit down and type out all the bulls**t excuses of why I wasn't going to post it..... unless of course my hair was black and if I posted a pic I was gonna get called on it.........	”

First, I find your constant misnaming of Sifu Chuck Kennedy in caps to be quite childish. It does not speak well of you, you don't need to resort to that. As you often say, that response speaks volumes.

Second, I already addressed all the rest, but you just don't listen. I have decided I am going to stop repeating myself over and over again if you don't listen. I don't have the endurance others do in debates with you. I'll say it once or twice. After that, my (and your) statements are there for others to decide the validity or not of them. I already know by the point of saying them a couple of times that you won't get it after that, so why bother?

As for my reasons for training, I have already posted them on multiple occassions. Further evidence of you not bothering to pay attention. After being here, I have a good idea of where most of the regulars are coming from because I listen to them. Apparently you don't.

__________________
I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

“	Except to say briefly that techniques were posted, just not to your satisfaction.	”

No one said that techniques weren't posted. The whole pivot point of the topic was "that you like to use". Everyone was posting techniques but not a single one of them was something that "someone likes to use". They were all hypothetical, not something that anyone did routinely.

“	Your interpretation was different -fine. The part that is annoying is when you pester people into trying to answer to your definition	”

"likes to use" is not something that is open for interpretation or "my definition"... You either use something or you don't... when you use it, you either like it or you don't. The correct answer would have been, "I don't know because I never use any techniques, we just talk about which ones we would use in hypothetical situations".

“	And, dude, I am not hurt.	”

Really....? It must be the alcohol making you make these long posts explaining why you won't post a video of you doing the things you so proudly exclaim to do... time after time after time.... We get it.... you're not going to post a video of you testing yourself and your art because it would be like posting a video of bigfoot. That's fine. We all get it. We all understand. Next.

“	First, I find your constant misnaming of Sifu Chuck Kennedy in caps to be quite childish.	”

Great. Do you also find him addressing me in all caps to be as childish, as well? Because he initiated that trend. Does that speak volumes for him as well?
Well, there you go FRED, I guess Aaradia doesn't think too highly of you, either. Now go lose some sleep over it.

“	I have decided I am going to stop repeating myself over and over again if you don't listen.	”

Thank you. Now, post a vid or don't but please stop barking about why you won't or can't. No one cares why you train. You have your own reasons. But if your reasons are "X" don't claim they are "Z" and then get butt hurt when called on it.

Now that all that BS is out of the way, who has cool vids for us all to be entertained by?

__________________
Rock On!
Cam
"Raise up your mind....."

The question is, why bother. Either you are willing to put up a video, of you "realistically testing your skill", or you aren't. I enjoy my car, although I am not "realistically" testing its performance against other sports cars. I don't think many people would react to demands on a forum like "I don't believe your car is nice unless you drive it in a racetrack and show me the video". Although, there are videos of a tuned Smart Roadster beating a Porsche and sticking to a Ferrari on the Lausitzring racetrack, but that's not me, and I couldn't. So why would you do that on a hobby involving hitting other people for fun, "proving" worth.

BTW, there were times when some stupids on the internet claimed that I couldn't do this, that, and so and so, when I explained that methods as some styles methods, where I would go furious and tell them to meet me in a boxing sparring to let me show to THEM that I could. But this is not the same as "testing your skills" against other well-trained fighters to evaluate something. I just don't like it, since my methods are not well-suited to sports, and my feelings wouldn't allow. But I would, if the occasion is there, and my shape and emotional state would allow that, lean ground grappling, and see how I fare with technical means against good and well minded training partners, no problem. What I won't like is to go on submission grappling tournaments where another stupid from Italy would try (and manage to do so) to catch people in a heelhook and immediately pull the break, breaking the ankle of 4 hobby fighters to win a tournament. I would have this emotion that I would like to kill someone like that and everyone of his bunch who defends him, which is unfortunately illegal. So I am not "testing my skills", so what. I'm not claiming I would beat them all, and easily, or denigrating other peoples approach. So why bother.

Anyone is free to put up a video if he likes, and everyone is free not to.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

“	Originally Posted By: Nik So why would you do that on a hobby involving hitting other people for fun, "proving" worth.	”

I'm not sure as to exactly what you mean but I think this statement goes a long way. Filming yourself pounding on another person for the purpose of "showing" someone else what you can do does not seem like something honorable people do. This is not to say that people who readily compete in "sport fights", and have film of them competing, are without honor. It is the nature of the sports world.

“	Originally Posted By: Nik BTW, there were times when some stupids on the internet claimed that I couldn't do this, that, and so and so, when I explained that methods as some styles methods, where I would go furious and tell them to meet me in a boxing sparring to let me show to THEM that I could. But this is not the same as "testing your skills" against other well-trained fighters to evaluate something. I just don't like it, since my methods are not well-suited to sports, and my feelings wouldn't allow.	”

Been there and done that. Some people grow out of the "Mine is better that yours" mentality after middle school. Unfortunately some don't. I even had people, unprovked, show up at my school to try and act on that exact statement. Like most people, I don't have my video recorder ready. The point of those, situations, was not to show off. Rather it was the opposite.
I'm sure certain people are frothing at the mouth to know what happened, or a play by play description, it would not prove anything.

Also, your comment about your methods are not well-suited to sports, is a contrast that some people don't want to make and I am glad to see that you are doing it as well as others. It's a whole different ball game when that honestly takes place. It's nice to see those who know the difference speak up.

aaradia,

The fact you don't video yourself for the sake of allowing the world to see something does not mean anything, except to those people who like to collect others' performances in order to analyze thier skills and add them to their own.

Also, the all CAPS thing on Cam's name, I did it to emphasize that he was being the one spoken to. It seemed to have just stuck. So my apologies are extended. Although I am sure his name is in Caps on many of his video presentations. However his misnaming me, in an almost manic way, was the result of me calling him out on his insinuations that he makes. You are right though, it does speak volumes.

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I am the present. I cannot know what tomorrow will bring forth. I can know only what the truth is for me today. That is what I am called upon to serve, and I serve it in all lucidity - Igor Stravinsky

Interesting thread. I, myself, have some vids from a while back. They are on ACTUAL videotape, though. I have a Sony Handycam...kinda outdated, but I can take it to class and tape some stuff. Will look like bloopers, probably, but hey: who cares? If anything, it will get a laugh. Now, how do you go about getting it from my dinosaur camera to the WWW?

__________________
Man for Sale: House-broken, current vaccinations, almost never humps your leg.

“	I will be more than happy to start. I wouldn't want to be hypocritical in matters such as these... http://www.praxismma.com/vids/Cam.wmv Here is a vid of hi-lites from most of my professional MMA fights and some submission grappling tournaments. Now, let's see everyone else putting themselves to the test!!!	”

Can't argue with that...