instructional video

Before I get too critical, I should add:

When the student is ready, the master will come.

If you don't get a call back, it ain't time. If you wanna spend your money on instructional videos, go for it. If you're really searching and willing to be a student, then when it's time, it'll be time. And if you end up waiting years to get a teacher -- well, put your unspent tuition money into mutual funds or CDs or something.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

Sammie's right you have to dig and want it. Trust me the rewards are great!

umm yeah ive been calling that number. and just so u guys no theres a million and one places it can be "by south dekalb mall" ive been all in and out of that site. sheesh every one is making it seem like im sitting here eating donuts waiting for him to walk on my door step to teach me. ive called and emailed the guy if i cant get an exact address i cant go there im not about to knock on all the doors and say "hey do u happen to teach wing chun here?" incase u nvr been on candler road thats where i was raised and thats not where u wanna go knocking on random doors. - -.

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Im sorry you feel like we are persecuting you. But sammie did provide an address for you

“	Originally Posted By: Kuli incase u nvr been on candler road thats where i was raised and thats not where u wanna go knocking on random doors. - -.	”

Candler Road? Isnt that by Candler Park? Theres an MMA gym over there I think.

As for "wanting" it. Kuli, these people do have a point, people who are usually dedicated to their style generally look day and night until they find what they want--its a thirst, it should be in your blood; and this type of tenacity is generally what keeps a student around when the going gets tough.

Alternatively, Id like to propose that everyone else lay off of Kuli a bit as well; this isnt 1500s feudal China here--Its modern day America. You want to learn something, you should damn well be able to call up the guy who wants to teach it and he should have a desire to teach you; one could easily surmise that this teacher isnt worth going to for lessons if he hasnt even the desire to return a phone call. Perhaps people should care less about a tough road to the beginning, and more about finding good fits.

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

The problem is there are a billion reasons, many good, many bad as to why he hasn't returned your phone call. You now have the address so go by there if the instructor isnt out of town or attending a family emergency, etc I'd say Plums advice may be worth hearing so may be everyone elses.

“	Originally Posted By: Kuli umm yeah ive been calling that number. and just so u guys no theres a million and one places it can be "by south dekalb mall" ive been all in and out of that site. sheesh every one is making it seem like im sitting here eating donuts waiting for him to walk on my door step to teach me. ive called and emailed the guy if i cant get an exact address i cant go there im not about to knock on all the doors and say "hey do u happen to teach wing chun here?" incase u nvr been on candler road thats where i was raised and thats not where u wanna go knocking on random doors. - -.	”

Actually I used to study Northern Shaolin off of Columbia & Memorial across from the old mall so it can be done. But I understand what you're saying.

However, all we keep hearing here is about the "failures to connect" & "what should I do now". If you're trying to get in touch with who I think you are, maybe he's decided to stop teaching. There's the other one I gave you only a couple miles down the road & if you're wanting Wing Chun, I can think of another one in the same general area between the two.

But give us status updates on attempts, not the other.

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

“	Originally Posted By: PlumDragon Candler Road? Isnt that by Candler Park? Theres an MMA gym over there I think.	”

PD... Yeah there's a MMA/Wing Chun place that is/used be around there. Also it's not far from the place we missed each other for the Lung Ying that day.

“	Originally Posted By: PlumDragon As for "wanting" it. Kuli, these people do have a point, people who are usually dedicated to their style generally look day and night until they find what they want--its a thirst, it should be in your blood; and this type of tenacity is generally what keeps a student around when the going gets tough.	”

Truth...

“	Originally Posted By: PlumDragon Alternatively, Id like to propose that everyone else lay off of Kuli a bit as well; this isnt 1500s feudal China here--Its modern day America. You want to learn something, you should damn well be able to call up the guy who wants to teach it and he should have a desire to teach you; one could easily surmise that this teacher isnt worth going to for lessons if he hasnt even the desire to return a phone call. Perhaps people should care less about a tough road to the beginning, and more about finding good fits.	”

True, but at the same time, no need for what comes across as whining (no offense). I gave him 2 contacts that aren't that far apart (literally a couple of exits on I-20) yet he's only trying & focusing on one, when the other I'm pretty sure could be reached really easily. As far as teaching things... they share some of the same styles & both teach different things than the other. I just don't like the seeming throwing in of the towel & sitting down, before it ever starts.

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
********
I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

I can agree that there could be any number of reasons for not getting a call back. Offhand, my kung fu school usually closes down for a week in the summer & winter for maintenance and cleaning. The phone gets answered, though.

Although it's certainly bad business for not calling back, many really dedicated MA teachers are not as interested in the business side as the training side. It keeps them poor but you are getting a lot more dedicated instruction.

And some may take phone calls but not accept students right off the street (often another student must recommend him). That's why you've got to be patient.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: clfsean True, but at the same time, no need for what comes across as whining (no offense). I gave him 2 contacts that aren't that far apart (literally a couple of exits on I-20) yet he's only trying & focusing on one, when the other I'm pretty sure could be reached really easily. As far as teaching things... they share some of the same styles & both teach different things than the other. I just don't like the seeming throwing in of the towel & sitting down, before it ever starts.	”

To a point I agree, and I said as much in my last post. Ill not go into an online diatribe on the topic but you and I have no real idea if Kuli has put in any effort here or not, "thrown in the towel", or other variables in his life, and its really beside the point as far as Im conerned: Hes entitled to handle situations however he feels appropriate, and if that means questioning the value of a teacher that cant go as far as to return a phone call, then fine. Either he wants to train or not and the level of effort he puts in to finding a good schoool for him will be directly proportional to his desire.

At the end of the day, we sit here on an internet forum typing to people weve never met, and somehow people think that badgering this guy will make a difference? Things work out the way they work out--If he doesnt want to train enough, he wont look. Trying to convince him of this or not wont change the outcome.

I suggest offering what input (contact info, locations, etc) you are willing to offer (if any), and leave the rest up to him. My input is as follows:

Chinese Martial Arts Schools list in Atlanta:
Chinese Martial Arts in Atlanta

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

“	Originally Posted By: PlumDragon Alternatively, Id like to propose that everyone else lay off of Kuli a bit as well; this isnt 1500s feudal China here--Its modern day America.	”

As i was the first to suggest he suck it up, i'll definitely agree here.

That said, ime, tcma student retention/attrition rates are really bad. I see maybe what, 1 out of 100 make it past 5 yrs. Why? Hard to say, but i just reason nowadays that it is just not for everyone and yet at the same time i detest the lack of fortitude that this represents. This is probably why i chided Kuli in the first place...

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

That majority of time the fantasy of doing Kung Fu is more intoxicating than the reality. Too much Hong Kong Phooey on the brain...that or too many stereotypes of ecsoteric kung fu gurus living in caves.

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“	Originally Posted By: bobblehead That said, ime, tcma student retention/attrition rates are really bad. I see maybe what, 1 out of 100 make it past 5 yrs. Why? Hard to say, but i just reason nowadays that it is just not for everyone and yet at the same time i detest the lack of fortitude that this represents. This is probably why i chided Kuli in the first place...	”

The higher, the fewer ...

(gawd that's a snotty saying)

But yeah, your most successful commercial MA schools have figured out this equation. Most students last about 3 years, some make it to 5. Doesn't matter how talented or non-talented they are. So that's why you see those 3-year black belt programs, they were designed specifically for that majority as that is the main money segment for a school.

IMO more people have "fortitude" than not, it's just that many never realize they have it, because no one pushes them to test that fortitude. If a commercial MA teacher does that, he risks losing that 3 years of tuition.

__________________
"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

“	Originally Posted By: bobblehead That said, ime, tcma student retention/attrition rates are really bad. I see maybe what, 1 out of 100 make it past 5 yrs. Why? Hard to say, but i just reason nowadays that it is just not for everyone and yet at the same time i detest the lack of fortitude that this represents.	”

This doesnt *have* to represent a lack of fortitude--it is just most easily intepreted that way. It doesnt have to represent lack of commitment, lack fo desire, disdain for ahrd work, or laziness. Its just *easiest* to intepret it like that.

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl But yeah, your most successful commercial MA schools have figured out this equation. Most students last about 3 years, some make it to 5.	”

Thats being very generous I think. Most commercial martial arts schools I feel are set up to take in students for 1 year or less. In a college town, you might as well expect to get a single semester out of a student, anything beyond that is icing on the cake. And I dont feel its much different with lots of other activities--and guess what, plenty of other activities are equally as difficult!

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl IMO more people have "fortitude" than not, it's just that many never realize they have it, because no one pushes them to test that fortitude. If a commercial MA teacher does that, he risks losing that 3 years of tuition.	”

I disagree. I think the average *working class* American displays a great deal of fortitude, whether it be academically, tenacity in their career, athletically, family life, etc etc...There are a lot of hard working peopel out there and martial arts circles seem to think they have some kind of monopoly on hard work. There are plenty of people who might portray no outward appearance of "fortitude", who might spend 3 months at the Kung Fu school before taking up Yoga, and then follow on with Violin lessons and weight training sessions. While this may lead to a jack of all trades and master of none, thats their business, but with so many options in a busy hustling bustling world, who can blame them? Taste all varieties of life before you die...Of coruse, most of these people mature into a person who settles down to 1 or 2 life-long hobbies.

At any rate, if they have good intent while they train, it should not matter how long they stay, but that they got something out of their time there and gave back by being a good, respectful student who is willing to learn--the onyl time I would disagree is when you have an exceedingly small class size...

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

Great posts, thank you all, as this is something i find more than a little frustration in...

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel