Hand hardening duration and intensity

Just one question regarding the durations you can safely exercise external iron palm / hand hardening variations like striking into beans, pebbles, hot sands and the likes. There are unfortunately rumors flying around on a certain non-disclosed message board that goes like the more extreme the better, like 3 hours daily of striking the skin off your hands and the heck out of your nerves. My stance is that you don't have a need for more than 15 minutes a day, with other practices assisting the hand and general strength building (various qigong procedures, weapon handling, etc.).

What is your experience of what was the norm, what was possible, and what led to health issues down the road ?

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

I did it a couple of hours a day

had a bag with beans in my car and I spend a couple of hourse every day in traffic jams which I used for hand conditioning

must say now my fingers are kinda stiff and I can forecast rain with the pain in my knuckles....

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

Why did you use no Dit Da Jow afterwards ?

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

Before striking anything, we spent several months (minimum) with a pale of sand. With each breath we would rotate through 3 grasps in the sand, and the exercise would last for about 20-30min 6 days/week.

The next "level" we would strike a small leather pouch filled with buckshot. We would rotate through 3 strikes (palm, back of the hand slap, and knife edge), each strike occuring with each breath. That one would last about the same time, 20-30min.

There are other stages from there varying from forearm conditioning to more medatative non-contact methods. But this method was billed as an "internal" iron palm. As someone in the exercise field, these methods seem great. The sand method is actually very similar to a treatment for and prevention of arthritis in the hand.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

3 hours? Wow... crazy. What gets me is what people's idea of hand conditioning is... with whatever name you call it. I don't see hand conditioning as a means to break objects, but instead I see conditioning as a means to use my tools like it should be. If people can see it for what conditioning truly is... (yes, by my definition.. LOL) then maybe people won't get so crazy with this iron palm training and the like.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

hey Jawsy is back as well!!!

“	Originally Posted By: Nik Why did you use no Dit Da Jow afterwards ?	”

I did use that actually...

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

I love to **** myself up as much as the next guy, but I found that a half hour to an hour a day for 5 days of the week was more than good enough...................

My iron palm routine generally takes about 2 hours a day, an hour first thing in the morning, an hour in the evening--Ive gotten into the pattern of not doing iron palm on nights that I train for a significant time.

Out of the 2 hours spent per day, maybe half that time is qigong, applying jow, and massage, leaving the other half for actual striking, which equates to about 300 total strikes in the morning, 300 in the evening--this is progressive, meaning that initially, in the system I studied, one would start with closer to 60 strikes at each session and work up to 300--some people were able to add strikes every day, some people needed to wait a month before increasing their number of daily strikes. The strikes are nicely paced and very controlled, no smacking or trying to slam the bag, no power; just a drop, with a primary focus on body mechanics, breathing, and intent. Things should increase slowly, real slowly. When adding strikes too quickly, my experience is that you can get hurt easily and have to back off for a day or 2 to heal.

For me its more of an "in the zone" time, a relaxing part of my day that I can get real focused, work on a process that takes many many years if done as to not injure yourself in the long run, and ultimately, blow off a bit of steam even while I smell the aromas from the jow, which acts for me as incense. Often times when Im very into my regimen, I dont even really see the conditioning as martial arts, its just kind of an activity that I enjoy doing.

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

Wow, 3 hours? That seems like a lot. I do it for half an hour each hand on the drive to work. Six months now. 300 per each striking surface.

If my hands start to buzz or 'sing', I back off for a day or two and then go back to it. I had to back off for a little bit because of joints getting tweaked (finger and wrist) during chin-na practice (boy those beginners don't have a lot of control, do they?), but I'll be back into it again soonish.

I was taught the way Nik described. 15 min is plenty to work on conditioning your hands.

Mei's 30 min to an hour seems like the absolute MAX I would rationally consider. 3 hours just seems too extreme.

"Respect Nature" - John Machado.

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"To alcohol ! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" - Homer Simpson

if you want to go that hardcore for the first bit of it i suggest 15 mins at a time, spread out through out the day. that way you get more used to it but less chance of the nerve damage you were talking about.

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~Me