co$t of $eminar$

I mentioned in another thread that I am taking a seminar next month. I also noticed in our GM's web site that his son is teaching some seminars up north of me.

Yikes! I thought our seminars were expensive- not unjustly so - but definitely an investment for me. With my discount for having the long term membership, I will pay about $150.00. The seminars up north are double that. I am sure they are worth it but........

..........I realized I really have no point of reference. What is the average cost of seminars? Is there an average? What have (if you don't mind my asking) you all paid for seminars before? What would you consider paying too much for a seminar, regardless of if you could afford it?

Thanks,

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I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

I've never payed for a seminar, with my current system they are always free for students.
In another style I did, the most expensive one was $50 and that's only because we had to pay for the space used in the seminar and few attended.

Personally, paying for a seminar in your own system seems like a rip off, it's the duty of your instructors/masters to teach you this information, not make a massive profit off you in doing so....

That said, anything over $50, in my own system, would be a huge no-no. If I was going to another system, I may go to the $150 mark if I get a days worth of training in and I get lots of application and theory behind it.

If I was paying someone $150, they better be showing me some REALLY useful stuff.

Just my 2 cents.

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“	Originally Posted By: KungFuMan I also learned a praying mantis fist style from watching the actual insect itself. This was before I actually learned some seven star mantis.	”

“	Originally Posted By: Solera Personally, paying for a seminar in your own system seems like a rip off, it's the duty of your instructors/masters to teach you this information, not make a massive profit off you in doing so.... .	”

Thanks for the input......errr. solera

There are so many CLF forms you couldn't possibly have them all in one school's curriculum. I think GM DFW says on his site that to become a Sifu in his lineage, you need to know about 20% of the forms. So, there is the distinction between what is in our school curriculum and what is in the entire CLF system for me.

So, I am always interested in the stuff taught that is not in our curriculum. Pretty much because I figure I will learn the stuff like the tai-chi spear when the time comes from my instructor like you said.

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I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

Personally I don't Know if I would pay that much but in actuality your neck of the woods $150 is reasonable. Every system on CLF I have ever heard of seems to have 160+ forms. So your dead on when you say that not everything can be in your schools curriculum. So I'd say its probably well worth it. If you can spare the dough

I just answered my own question.

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“	Originally Posted By: KungFuMan I also learned a praying mantis fist style from watching the actual insect itself. This was before I actually learned some seven star mantis.	”

Free to $400 for a weekend is what i've paid.
$150 could be no big deal, if you get the time and information you are looking for...

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

To put it in perspective, in all the books I have picked up about running martial arts schools and how to help them succeed as a business, the subject of seminars has come up. In a nutshell, its a way to suppliment income. That is why the person running it puts it on, to make money.

With that in mind, a good teacher will make sure you have everything you need in the standard curriculum. So the only thing you are really getting in a seminar is "bells & whistles". If the material was so essential to the style, it should be a part of the core curriculum. Its that simple.

So what it boils down to is whether you want any extra bells & whistles.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

How many hours are included in the seminar? Seminars are a really good way of cramming a lot of info into a short time, giving you lots of quality attention and things to work on--maybe its a way to do some catch up if youve fallen behind, or maybe its a chance to get ahead if youre thirsting for more...and maybe its jsut all bells and whistles. Regardelss, they are a good way to mix things up and a great way to meet other people interested in what youre doing.

In a number of types of fitness topics, some weekend seminars can cost well over $1,000, with the average running maybe a few hundred bucks. You have to remember you are paying people for their time, and some charge more than others. Ultimately, its up to you as the consumer to decide in your own mind, whether the dollar amount asked is worth what you will get at the seminar--or is that money better spent on additional principle to your mortgage next month...

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

Seminars seem to vary widely.

I was at a HungKuen seminar a few years back, and for 6 hours it was $50. Grand Tujon Gaje had a seminar last year in San Diego and it was $125 for two days, with each day around 8 hours each. Sifu Primcias holds Qi-gong seminars for 2 days for $275 for his CLF lineage. Sometimes a school will hold a seminar for absolutely free in order to get people interested in a new training course they have.

It all depends. How much do you value the knowledge and then, how much before you feel that the instructor is ripping you off? And if you feel you're getting ripped off, how much does that diminish the value? Also, these guys need to eat, just like you. I see some of the places these guys live in and the cars they drive, and they are by no means richie places or richie cars. Many of them live in below average places with very old/falling apart cars. All these things need to be taken into account.

With all that being said, you might be able to get one of the students to teach you whatever he learned at the seminar for the price of a movie or dinner.

This is kind of considered cheating, though. I would not do it.

Another consideration is whether the material will be covered again. If your school hosts a "groundfighting seminar", but then never goes over that material in class or provides opportunity for it, then how useful is that seminar?

If the seminar is to learn an obscure form, how often will you end up practicing that form? And will the form actually provide you with any insight into the rest of your training?

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

In this case the presence of the GM would also increase the value, as your day to day routine does not include his input(probably worth every penny if you look at it that way...)

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought the fool, than to open it and prove it so." KungFuTze
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." T. Geisel

Seminars really do vary widely. I'd say $150 is a decent "mean" average for a one-day, pay-your-own-way seminar. That average definitely varies region to region -- it's gonna be pricier on either coast.

Compared to what many non-MA, "corporate" seminars cost, $150 is very inexpensive. Of course, those bills are footed by companies, not individuals.

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"Pain can be a great teacher of compassion and humility."~ Unkotare-san

"Whatever the case, it proves that countless disasters can be prevented by simply assuming everyone you're working with is a moron." ~ Adam Brown, 5 Tiny Mistakes...

I think it depends on whether or not the seminar is done by someone local or someone from far away.

For those of us who live in less-air-travel-friendly locations, it will cost at least $1,500 for air travel alone to bring someone in. If the instructor is out-of-continent, double that. Since a good MA seminar size is pretty small, $150 to $200 for a weekend seminar is a pretty low price. I've paid that price range a few times.

When a local school I respect brings in a good instructor for a seminar, I will usually attend out of respect, even if it's not a topic I'm particularly interested in. It may cost me a couple of hundred dollars, but I usually end up learning something useful, and since there are many bad schools around, the good ones don't always have enough students to pay for bringing an instructor in, so it helps them financially. When I bring someone in for a seminar, these schools pay me the same courtesy.

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