Multiple Attackers

Farook is right. That is some good knowledgible advise. When I had my aforementioned ordeal. I was arested with the other participants(the ones that they could find). I had to go to court, get a lawyer, pay a relatively large sum of money(keep in mind I was in highschool). Actually my parents helped me out with the cash, but this is out of context to the point. Fighting one on one, you can have a better sense of control and strategy. I was reacting to pure reflex, and caused some seriously potential injuries. The agressor was bleeding from the throat from the eagle claw grab. No I did not try to rip his throat out, I was just going off of reflex, And bought myself a cuncussion in the process. However when the police were making their reports, yu can see how the nature of that injury alone did'nt help my argument any. One cop who was working security at my school due to gang problems had a problem with my smart-alec brother, and just assumed that I started it. Fortunately, I did have a good lawyer, and several teachers wrote me letters of personal refference. It was'nt too difficult to prove that I was defending myself. However it could've been very different. I had a lawyer and sometimes the legal system can be decribed a apathetic at best. The consequences of our actions can last much longer than the fight itself, nomatter how well skilled you are.

These things will help or should anyway: good distance, keep at an angle, keep your eyes on all, but focous on the lead man, use your surroundings, if possible, please get out of there unless you just want to see how good you are.

__________________
He who knows not and knows not he knows not,
-He is a fool- Shun him.-
He who knows not and knows he knows not,
-He is simple- Teach him.-
He who knows and knows not he knows,
-He is asleep- Awaken him.-
He who knows and knows that he knows,
-He is wise- Follow him." -

~Arabian Proverb/Bruce Lee~

if you ever find yourself in the unfourtanate situtation of facing mutiple attackers, like everyone else said, keep distance. keep moving around, constantly. i remember when i was beginning my instructor had me and another beginner fight a black belt. i hit my "buddy" more than my intended target. usually in these situations, things get wild, use that to your advantage. fake this way, fake that way. and when i say fake, i dont mean fake hit, i mean fake "running the hell outta there in this direction fake," then go the other way. also, go for the legs. get em off their feet as much as possible. best case scenrio, you get one of em really good and they stay down with their broken knee. worst case, you trip em up, thats about it, but in that second, you can knock the other guy whose still standing out. plus, getting the wind knocked out of you is a great stopper. sweep that guys feet right out from under him.

i still suggest befoe all of the above getting the hell out of there, but if you cant, i hope some of this helps.

i dont know if someone already mentioned this, but i would also suggest staying away from the high kicks. last thing you want is to lose your balance and end up on the ground.

I agree EXFS... Low kicks are the best anyway for self defense purposes. Destroy the legs.

__________________
He who knows not and knows not he knows not,
-He is a fool- Shun him.-
He who knows not and knows he knows not,
-He is simple- Teach him.-
He who knows and knows not he knows,
-He is asleep- Awaken him.-
He who knows and knows that he knows,
-He is wise- Follow him." -

~Arabian Proverb/Bruce Lee~

If you are faced with many opponents, your first option should be to run. If you are cornered, and must fight, then clearly you wish to fight only one at a time. Sidestep, and back away, as this will line them up with eachother. Don't let them drag you down, when you are down, the fight is over, as they will pile on top of you, and you will not be able to recover. Keep them at a distance, then attack at close range, with maximum power, you must aim to put that person out of the fight with one strike. If at all possible, fight your way to an exit. Use side stepping, and backing away, yo clear your path to the exit.. then make your move... either run... or attack the single person in your way... in open combat against many people, if htey can all attack at once, you will almost certainly be defeated. Make them fight you on your terms.. and GET OUT as soon as possible.

This is good, sound advice that I sincerely hope we all adhere to in one way or another.

As a general rule, I agree with this. Especially the notion of fighting and running and taking opponents out of the fight to secure and exit route and fighting on your terms. These are important points, but I would think leaving when you have the first chance (or securing safety would be more like it is best).

The only aspect where this could work against you would be when the police become involved but at that point one would have to concern themselves with personal safety over legal matters. In otherwords, I would risk dealing with legal ramification than staying around until the police show up dealing with 2 or more people. I would be more inclined to run or at least seek safety and security now with the wider usage of weapons such as guns, box cutters, knives etc. than to stick around and go toe to toe with 2-5 guys until the police showed up or until they were neutralized (which would be hard to do).

I really hope that no martial artist would seek out such situations.

Intresting advice I'd have to agree with all of it especially Faarooq advice. But if I had to face multiple attackers I would constantly dodge and make as many strikes as I could get in. Then if things got really bad I would go after one thug and use a Aikido move that would apply me putting me thumb on the out side of his hand between the ring finger and the pinkie then twisting it toward his back. That would cause him to flip over and hit the ground. Then I would be ready to brake his wrist. I would then threaten to brake his wrist with the hope that they would stop their assult on me. I hope this post has helped you with your question

__________________
The only thing neccesary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Edmund Burke,

Nuts, eyes, and knee caps.

OK -- I'm working on the assumption that it's a serious situation, if not a life threatening one.

Secondly, it is my conviction that over 90% of battles are fought using the mind...

Thirdly, again based on my experience, more often than not the person(s) who initiate a conflict is/are really a coward... he is trying to prove something to you, or to himself.. in short he is UNSURE of his own ability

Fourthly, the key to "winning" is to destroy the opponent's will to fight rather that destroying him physically...

Taking all this into consideration, the following helps:


1. Whatever you do, don't show fear. The opponents will sense it. You may feel fear, but don't show it.

2. The opposite of not being fearfull is not being aggressive -- on the other hand, project an image of cool confidence in your abilities.

3. Tell them something to the effect of "what's it going to solve Either you guys will get hurt, or I will, or all of us will. But if you still want to, so be it". Get a ring of finality into the last sentence.

Chances are that they may back out at this stage. If they don't...

4.Take one of the guys out real fast and hard. It can be even better if you don't KO the guy, rather just severely disabling a limb, preferably the arm -- a well executed strike with a shuto to the crook of his elbow or on the biceps will easily break or severely disable his hand (if you know how to). The reason why I advocate disabling a limb rather than KOing the guy is he'll be screaming in agony -- which in itself will psyche out the other guys as well as give them an indication of what you're capable of. Nothing like someone else advocating what you're capable of (courtesy his screaming, howling and moaning) right

5. Having disabled one, turn to the others and ask them who's next. Don't ask them if they still want to have a go at you -- make it seem like a given -- that you expect that they'll come at you and you're bloody prepared for them. Seem calm, almost disinterested. Resigned to doing what has to be done. The main thing here is your attitude, you must have no thought of winning or losing.

9 times out of ten, they'll bug out. Trust me, it works -- it may seem a dirty way of fighting, it may seem to be playing mental games. As long as it saves your hide, it's fine.

Beware against lawsuits though, and make sure you don't permanently disable / kill someone.

And as a parting shot -- the best thing to do reallyis not to put yourself in a position where you have to fight. And if it's your wallet they want, just give it to them.

regards,
nevilleb

nevilleb,

Your advice is sound. However, in some instances, I could see room for disagreement.

When you opened, you stated you assuming the situation is serious, if not life threatening. Then you end by saying you should'nt disable the guy. Can we really have it both ways Perhaps I am misunderstanding your.

I understand the intention to avoid lawsuits and potential legal problems. I also understand putting someone down hard. However, if the situation is really that serious, especially if a weapon is involved, it may require disabling, in perhaps (hopefully not) killing someone.

I must say that overall, I admire your strategy of trying to get out of the situation and if forced to fight trying to minimize the conflict by psyching out the opponent. I would only say that if a weapon is pulled, which is a possibility, that could complicate things. This is where I differ in opinion. And perhaps we may differ in how we react to a situation when it becomes serious, but overall I think we both agree that if we can avoid the situation, avoid it or get out of it with minimal or not damage. Besides that, I think we may just view our opponents slightly differently. I agree that there are situations where you have multiple opponents who are cowards. However, there are some situations with multiple opponents that are extremely dangerous.

Examples that I have personally seen are in the case of mobs where you are outnumbered at least 5 (or better) to 1 and you have others with you and safety seems distant. Are they cowards, perhaps, but nonetheless, this situation is extremely dangerous. In other words, these are not two or three jerks who just had a little too much and decided to pick on someone, these people could be fueled by additional motives (i.e. prejudice, etc.) which makes the situation more volatile. Here taking people down hard and running as fast as you can becomes just about the only option.

In the end, I believe we would all agree that avoidance, should be the first option, if the situation is unavoidable and is serious, then whatever it takes to survive the situation and at that point I believe the legal matters are out of the window. I recall an old saying "It is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6". In short, if the situtation is that serious, it's better to have to deal with the legal consequence than to deal with serious injury, if not worse.

I hope we can all avoid such situations.

“	Originally posted by baichi hahahahahaha oh, man.	”

Baichi,

I have always believed that it is easier to hurt people than it is to heal them. Or to make them laugh for that matter.

Since I have obviously made you laugh; and in great measure at that, what can I say -- thanks for your endorsement! :-)))))

nevilleb

I have always been taught that if you are put into a multiple attacker situation then you probebly are in serious trouble. At this point you should make an example out of the assailant who happens to be closest to you. Also, when the opening arrives depart quickly. Sticking around and trying to see how good you are or trying to fight everyone could lead to more trouble than its worth. This applies in a legal aspect as well. As for techniques my Chong Kwan Jang Nim had us doing multiple defenses usin alternating low roundhouse kicks to the shins and knees , to a low spin kick for every other assailant. It turned out to be a good way to disable everyone enough to find the time to dissapear. In this particular exercise all the assailants were fairly close and you were surrounded.

If you can help it try and keep all your assailants either in front of you or on either side of you. Even with training it is quite a bit more dangerous for you if there are people behind you. Never back yourself into a corner, you just ant up trapping yourself. Keep in mind that things rarely go as planed as do peoples reactions. Just becouse you make an example of the first person who gets near you, it doesnt mean that the others will back off. People tend to get more stupid and braver when they are in groups. Be prepared to do whatever it takes to defend you life and personal safty. I don't know about other states but in Va, if you are being threatened with sever bodily harm of death , then you can respond with the same. It is always a good idea to know what the laws of your state say reguarding not just Martial arts, but self defense period.

__________________
Daniel W. "Gigagei Waya" McCullar, 4th Dan

Oooh, look the Korean stylist used Chinese
http://www.dragonslist.com/discussio...read-ever.html

Heres my experience, keep in mind that I had quiet a few years of informal training in Karate and a slight bit in judo when this happened so just because your trained doesnt mean its easy to use...

I had a few "friends" that I only talked to on occasion, these guys were all cocaine fiends and it showed. They like to fight point blank and they shure arent pansys as my story will show. These guys wanted to jump another guy I knew (allthough I didnt like him either) and I stepped in and told them it would be a one on one or nothing.. bad move...
They left the guy alone and acted like everything was cool while I had backup ( three friends in the car) and waited until I was by myself at my girlfriends house then they came to jump me. At the time I didnt know what was going on and there was like 5 cars in the road in front of my girls and they were all stopped, at least 10 guys got out and started comming towards the house when I went outside. Yelling started and words were exchanged. We had decided I would fight one of them one on one so I went out into the yard, my instincts telling me something was very wrong and the guy ran at me like a madman so I planted a very firm snap kick into his abdomen as he charged at me and it landed, hurting him badly but taking both of us to the ground. I looked up just in time to catch a boot heel firm in the left eye, then another, and another about 20 or 30 times. Next thing I know I have about 5 or 6 guys kicking my skull in and all the training I had undergone became useless as blood poured from my eye , nose, and mouth and my vision left all I could feel was many many feet kicking me over and over.

My point is, I had allways been taught by the guys I trained with that if you take out the biggest one and hurt him bad enough they will leave you alone .. WRONG!!!.. when I hurt their commerade it was war and I paid for it dearly. I wont pretend to give you advice on this topic, all I can say is that whatever concept you have in your mind goes out the window when the adrenaline kicks in unless you train to control this adrenaline and to keep a calm mind in battle, and for the most part this will take many years, so I dont really believ that the beginning martial artist has a chance at multiple attackers unless they are just a bunch of wimps that fall on the first strike like a batman cartoon, in real life people are mean and tough and thye want to hurt you, and if they want to hurt you they will usually.

Also, despite everything these guys returned some time later and I hurt one of them seriously, I dont want to talk about this situation though but let me say this, they came and I got hit with bricks the second time, I only hurt one of them and was facing charges that brought 890 days in Davidson County Department of Corrections and they were at my house.. keep this in mind when preparing your defense.

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" Warfare is the greatest affair of state, the basis of life and death, the Tao to survival and extinction. It must be thoroughly pondered and analyzed." -Sun Tzu