Clip of 32 move Tai tzu revisited

Ok, I want to point one thing out about the clip I posted, but I don't want it to become another war.

That clip IS authentic Tai Tzu, only it is being performed like modern PRC Shaolin (as it often is, like MANY Shaolin sets). The circles are opened up, and it's egaggerated to the max for show. HOWEVER, the frame IS correct for the most part. I have the full set myself, AND I know the PRC version. I was taught the PRC version first, then after some time the individual felt comfortable enough with me to show me the correct way to do the set.

This perticular set, I'm told, was not preserved through Shaolin, but through a local family who taught it back to them. So the issue of whether or not a Monk is a Monk is not relevant in this argument. The set is what it is. There are two main versions, the traditional one, and the PRC. What I posted was the PRC version. Those with real Tai Tzu backgrounds can look at it, recognise it, and correct it because they do know the principals and can thus see where they are intentionally being violated for flash and sparkle.

Someday, I may even show the correct version to some priviately.

Now, as before, I would like to see a discussion of the clip and it's comparison to other things called Tai Tzu.

Lets not get this locked again, OK boys

http://www.seculardisciple.com/mv1.html

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It still looks like PRC Shaolin wushu mixed in with lo-han. I just don't see it. It has a very shaolin-ish feel. I don't see the steam-roller that Tai Tzu is supposed to be. Its very picky here, picky there.

I agree. While I dont study Tai Tzu....it does seem very "wushu-ish" to me.

But that was the intent right

Are the moves (non wushu version) the same but more....um...whats the word..constricted maybe Kind of like Yang tai chi being very "open" compared to Sun style being smaller movements

Is this making any sense..LOL

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Its not the the boldness, or lack there of, of the movement that puts me off, Its the intent of the actions.

It has elements I recognize and its agressive but it doesn't really have the continuity I've come to expect from TZ. And where is the distance Most all TZ I know travels up and down and around, it doesn't stay neatly in frame.

The Shaolin Branches are like that. I personally think what you do is probably closer to the original intent, but Shaolin forms commonly are restricted to a line. For example, I have 2 sections of the long form that are like that from a Shaolin branch, but 4 more that are more like yours, 3 are a Malaysian line, one is from the mainland. I have a Taiwanese Tai Tzu Chang Chuan set (sometimes called Xiao Tai Tzu Chang Chuan) that is up and down and around like you are used to. I think I sent you a copy of that one already.

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I don't know Tai Tzu, but I do know Shaolin

and indeed it's performed in a very Shaolin way
which offcourse isn't a bad thing by itself, it's only different

in our school we have several ways to perform some routines
there are differences between stances, small trademarks that some styles add on and different body positioning and the use of trademark fists....

in eagle claw a cat stance is slightly different than in shaolin or even in long fist

there are even differences between the eagle claw branches
the Lau schools do different stances than the Leung Lee Fu schools and Leung Shum schools

it are the small things that make the trademarks and show where ya from
no more, no less

so.....
no point to make here really, since I don't know crap about real Tai Tzu

but...
I would like to see how it's done "properly"

Chief108

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all hail Martyr Fakka

I may do something someday with that one, but right now I'm not allowed to show it, as it was taught to me by a senior of this perticular line, and he basically went and gave me way too much of it before he asked if he could, so I have been asked to keep it quiet. I'm not even allowed to say who taught it to me.

Given the situation, I'm skeptical as to wheather or not I have the full set myself. I know I have the complete frame, but the last time I saw him, he showed me quite a bit of detail "inside" that frame. Like all these little Chin Na's he left out the first time he taught it to me. Several of the duplicate moves actually had something else that goes in thier place too. I was originally given a VHS tape of him performing a general public version of the set, and I learned that first. After talking to him for a long time he decided to meet with me next time he was in Chicago (has family here). When we met up, he explained I had a GP version of the set, and he showed me the major differences between the two. The time after that he showed me a bunch of missing detail, and the time after that even more. I suspect there is quite a bit more detail I haven't seen yet.

What I might have to do is modify the set a bit, so others can get the concept, wile retaining the quiet nature of it's origins to me. Maybe I could perform the GP frame, only traditionally or something. I want to get better at it first though, I still need alot of work on it to get it right.

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Cheif,
As for the different ways of performing stuff, Tai Tzu is no different. Each branch seems to have thier own flavor. Abel's is very powerful in expression. His description likening it to a "Steam roller" is very good. You see it in his forms. Other branches are softer in nature. It seems the Northern branches are like this, where as branches that found thier way south are more like Abel's I have footage of a Taiwanese branch of the Tai Tzu Hong Chuan that is closer in performance to Abels branch, where as another Taiwanese branch I have is much closer to footage I have of a Shenyang branch. Taiwan is interesting becasue it seems to have branches form multiple regions all coexisting.

Also, the Tai Tzu Hong Chuan is suposedly descendent from the Imperial Guard, as is Abel's branch. It interests me that those two have certian similarites to them.

Over all, it's all pretty much the same stuff, but the flavors of how the Long Fist is performed are unique among each branch.

I wish a White guy from Chicago could get close enough to back trace the lines to like, the Ming dynasty, just to see the evolutionary progressions. At this point, I think I've done as much as can be expected (more so really) for a guy in my position.

Oh well, time to start learning Cantonese, and Mandrine!!!!

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Sifu Abel, would you be willing to put Jap Xiao Ma Kune up

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maybe , give me some time. I only have the slow instructional version on video.

I want to get the full speed set down on digi.

That would be really cool. I have a few snipits of you really moving, and all I can say DAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!

When I can figure out how to put video on my site I want to put together some clips. Sort of a montage of Tai Tzu forms. I want to make it up of different bits of all the forms I'm allowed to show. I'll label them according to lineage with contact info if I'm allowed to. I'd really like to put you doing your Monkey demo, and Jap Xiao Ma Kune. If I get presentable enough, I may do a few sets too, as soon as I can tie someone down long enough to film me.

I don't want to put full forms for obvious reasons though, except maybe the basic sets of a system, but I think a long montage of snipits would be really cool, all without pissing anyone off.

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My monkey demo is available here right now on my profile.

THat is a cool set. Ther's some movement in it I'm not used to seeing in monkey but there are all kinds.

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The monkey seen in Tai tzu is not the comon Tai Shing Pek War stuff, it's a line suposedly dateing back to 650 AD. I wish I had more of it documented. I'm not going to see more unless I become an indoor student under someone, and that is not likely given the proximity of myself, and any qualified teachers. Maybe I'll move to Southern Cal

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