Black Iron Sand Palm Master verses Red Iron Sand Palm Master

Found this story here , referring to The First National Tournament - Nanjing, 1928. Yikes!

In the combat division, the contests were fierce. Many styles left sorrowful impression on the audience because the representatives of particular styles did not measure up to their competition. Gu Ruzhang fought two fighters. In the first fight, he won easily. In the second fight, Gu Ruzhang was matched with a Bagua Fighter with Cinnabar Sand Palms or Zhu Sha Zhang. He too was a master of Iron Sand Palm and whose palms were red. Hence the name, Cinnabar Iron Sand Palm. Gu Ruzhang's Iron Sand Palm was called Black Sand Palm or Hei Sha Zhang. Naturally, Gu Ruzhang's palms were black. Both Iron Sand Palms are known as Poison Sand Palm or Tu Sha Chang. The training methods for both Cinnabar and Black Iron Sand Palms are similar.
The first stage - Strengthen the palm by striking green peas. This is to numb the nerve endings in the palm. Later, the peas are replaced by or iron chips or iron ball bearing. These iron pellets become imbedded into the flesh.
The second stage - The palms are thrust into hot sand to further strengthen them.
The third stage - Diluted poison is added to the iron pellets. With time, the poison dose is increased slowly in concentration while the body builds immunity towards the poison.
After drilling in each stage, herbs are prepared to nurse the hands to prevent injury. Special herbal liquids are used to reduce swelling and alleviate pain. Sometimes the pain was so great that practitioners would turn to western drugs such as opium and heroin to kill the pain. Herbs also play an important role in the last stage, since herbs prevent the body from absorbing too much of the toxic poison. The difference between the Cinnabar Iron Sand Palm and Black Iron Sand Palm is the type of poison used in the training. As the fighter strikes his opponent, the poison is transferred from the palm into the opponent. The opponent usually dies because of the poison. Many times blisters and welts would developed and would give the appearance of a snakebite. Hence the name, Poison Hand. When the audience saw that Gu Ruzhang was matched against the Cinnabar Master, the fight was titled, Black Iron Sand Palm Master verses Red Iron Sand Palm Master. The Red Cinnabar Iron Sand Palm Master used his Bagua techniques to circle Gu Ruzhang and looked for an opening. When the Red Cinnabar Iron Sand Palm Master attacked, Gu Ruzhang avoid the deadly red palm and counter-attacked. Within three moves Gu Ruzhang struck his opponent with his Black Iron Sand Palm and knocked his opponent down. On his opponent's chest, was Gu Ruzhang's black palm imprint. Gu Ruzhang's opponent was quickly escorted off the stage and was treated for the poison.

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cool...

did you see the rules tho???

Rule One: No poking or gouging of the eyes.
Rule Two: No poking or grabing of the throat.
Rule Three: No groin strikes.

that's just like MMA rules :

Chief108

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“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

That's the first time I've heard a story about the Nanjing Tournament with the Crayola Palm colorings.

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Terrorists aren't overseas. They're at the gas pump.
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I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand. -- Kung Fu-tzu (Confucius)

If you would have a look at the contents of various "sands", then you would see that only the physical consistency of a sand or compound is of importance. Everyone claiming "extreme powers" by using POISONOUS lead or let alone mercury or venom filled sand is a liar. You don't reach any special skills in using venomous components, let alone become able to "issue" venom from your hands. This is not Mortal Kombat, with some ice waves thrown around, or scorpion heads. The sand use is strictly mechanical. It MIGHT be filled and soaken with dit da jow, to have it already in the sand and not need to oil the hands before and after. It might also contain simply water or oils, to make it thicker, and have a constant, defined resistance. People claiming venomous stuff in there probably saw slightly red or darkish sand used by someone from the distance, and made up his ideas on what he saw. There is NO PAIN involved in developing iron palm, with using sand on various surfaces or bags, or without. I don't disbelieve for a minute that some fools had tremendous pain some day when they used lead or mercury sands poisoning themselves over time, from arthritis, poisoning, and whatever happens to the hand when you do stupid stuff. Don't do crap like that for wicked stories, the real thing is very simple, and a mechanical move using the sand. It's not so important these days. If you are trained in that to a degree, you put away people quickly with such strikes, from the mechanical result. You might want to think twice if you like to explain to the police you trained for years to be able to kill someone with such a blow, and did that the first time someone picked a meaningless fight on the corner. It's something for people who develop the control, to be able to use it enough to teach a lesson, not to kill.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

My first post in a couple of years, I think...

Sounds like a dodgy qi demo. The guy who got hit was "rushed off stage to get the poison out" LOL!

And, technically, it's at leas part BS. Red sand palm has nothing to do with red (rusty) palms. The name is derived from the mark it leaves on the "victim", which is a dappled area of red dots (blood under the skin).

Rgds,
David

“	Originally Posted By: David My first post in a couple of years, I think...	”

LOL...
joined in 1999 and 2 posts 6 years later!!!

cool...

c-ya in 2008 David!!!
(well.... if you want to keep up with your postcount that is...)

Chief108

__________________

“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

hehe, I saw the count of "2" after that last post went in.

2008? Sounds a bit early...

Post #1 in Nov 1999
Post #2 in Nov 2005
Post #3 in Nov 2011

Oh damn, this is post #3

Rgds,
David

“	Originally Posted By: Nik If you would have a look at the contents of various "sands", then you would see that only the physical consistency of a sand or compound is of importance. Everyone claiming "extreme powers" by using POISONOUS lead or let alone mercury or venom filled sand is a liar. You don't reach any special skills in using venomous components, let alone become able to "issue" venom from your hands. This is not Mortal Kombat, with some ice waves thrown around, or scorpion heads. The sand use is strictly mechanical. It MIGHT be filled and soaken with dit da jow, to have it already in the sand and not need to oil the hands before and after. It might also contain simply water or oils, to make it thicker, and have a constant, defined resistance. People claiming venomous stuff in there probably saw slightly red or darkish sand used by someone from the distance, and made up his ideas on what he saw. There is NO PAIN involved in developing iron palm, with using sand on various surfaces or bags, or without. I don't disbelieve for a minute that some fools had tremendous pain some day when they used lead or mercury sands poisoning themselves over time, from arthritis, poisoning, and whatever happens to the hand when you do stupid stuff.	”

Debunking legendary skills to make another legendary skill more credible and scientific? Black sand palms leaves a boil/blister. Burning palms leaves a red mark. Higher levels leaves a 2nd degree burn and blister. Fire palm can ignite objects at legendary levels but the burning effect on striking is more pronounced. Only its just meditations while the others might have striking procedures (to make burning palm meditations more effective like iron palm). You cant develop cinnibar palm without cinnibar, period. You could develop another skill similar skill but the cinnibar creates a totally different skill. If someone is training a skill without the special, possibly dangerous procedures trying to cite some mechanical use. I'd suspect that more. If anything the storys are legends. Anyone trying to rationalise a legend and tranining it in public or secret is probably a bit off anyways. The black sand palm uses the unbagged balls and the herbs and insect parts added to it. But its not nessessary. Same with the cinnibar palms. You can take it internally or some way that doesnt go into or on the body but drains the fire developed from training. But if not, your health will be more at risk by ignoring the guidelines. I have some formulas and its clear that your supposed to use clay in some formulas. Which is translated as sand sometimes. This is funny because one person might say "i learned about this from my teachers master via my teacher". How can you learn about a erroneous method based on wrong translation and interpretation? How can someone produce results from a fallatious methodology? There is a not so suttle social engineering going on here. Trying to keep people ignorant while another guy plays pick and choose furtivly trying to develop some skill or to make him famous.

“	Originally Posted By: David My first post in a couple of years, I think... Sounds like a dodgy qi demo. The guy who got hit was "rushed off stage to get the poison out" LOL! And, technically, it's at leas part BS. Red sand palm has nothing to do with red (rusty) palms. The name is derived from the mark it leaves on the "victim", which is a dappled area of red dots (blood under the skin). Rgds, David	”

It can make the palms red but if the writers understanding of black sand palms was the same as red sand palm then he is probably mistaken. The black sand palms effect is from the wind. The antidote to the "poison" is the thing that caused it in the first place! Venom loses its toxicity if it isnt stored at the right temperature. But it does retain its vibrational property. There are homeopathic types of cinnibar and venoms. Some even contain the crude material in small amounts. Lead poisoning is moot as there are well known antidotes. One that comes to mind is Alum. It converts lead and mercury compounds to inert substances. Fuling and Chinese lettuce also have known mercury expelling functions. The main issue here is the load on your kidneys. Not your brain. There are way more issues for people to get pantys in a bind about. Benzene, propyl alchohols, distilled water, ALL OF WHICH ARE FOUND IN COMMON SOFT DRINK AVAILABLE OFF THE SHELF. Dont get me started on exitotoxins?

Can I buy activation codes for that "Cinnibar palm" on eBay ?

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

BTW, the minute you try to lure noobies into using TOXING SUBSTANCES like mercury into their "training", you are banned.

Metal poisons like lead and mercury GO TO YOUR BRAIN. Not only to the kidneys. It's a well known problem to get that out of the brain, only very potent complex builders like di-mercapto-propansulfon variants can do that, and this is VERY dangerous. Don't make me laugh, lettuce ? Try to sell that to clinics that need to treat victims of industry accidents. There are NO "easy, cheap" antidots to heavy metal intoxications.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

“	Originally Posted By: Tengri It can make the palms red but if the writers understanding of black sand palms was the same as red sand palm then he is probably mistaken. The black sand palms effect is from the wind. The antidote to the "poison" is the thing that caused it in the first place! Venom loses its toxicity if it isnt stored at the right temperature. But it does retain its vibrational property. There are homeopathic types of cinnibar and venoms. Some even contain the crude material in small amounts. Lead poisoning is moot as there are well known antidotes. One that comes to mind is Alum. It converts lead and mercury compounds to inert substances. Fuling and Chinese lettuce also have known mercury expelling functions. The main issue here is the load on your kidneys. Not your brain. There are way more issues for people to get pantys in a bind about. Benzene, propyl alchohols, distilled water, ALL OF WHICH ARE FOUND IN COMMON SOFT DRINK AVAILABLE OFF THE SHELF. Dont get me started on exitotoxins?	”

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

Nonsense. All of these are eluding to various effects of what is referred to as poinson hand. No magic powers or fatality moves. Just plain pysiololgical side effects of various degrees of damage or destriction to/of the lymph system.

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit