Challenge Matches

Hello all,

The Way, if you decide to instigate a challange match, just make certain you have the blessing of your Sifu. Otherwise apart from probable legal consequences, you could lead your school and your Sifu into a lot of trouble.

Kind regards

Marcus

Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha Namo Amitabha Buddha

“	Originally Posted By: Marcus@shaolinwahnam The Way, if you decide to instigate a challange match, just make certain you have the blessing of your Sifu. Otherwise apart from probable legal consequences, you could lead your school and your Sifu into a lot of trouble.	”

Definitely something else to consider. Besides an arse handing.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

One thing to consider is you need to check out how someone will respond before you issue a challange, you might run into some like me and that would be a very bad mistake. Not everyone sees things the same way or cares what others think of their views. Now days there are plenty of places and venues for those issues you might feel you need to prove going after someone is just plain ignorant, vain, and carless.

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

One thing I noticed about martial arts forums is that everyone tends to take things way too seriously. Aqira, I wasn't challenging you, I was trying to start a fun discussion because I was bored.

I stand by my position that Kung Fu is missing something without challenge matches. I compete in swimming because I love swimming and I want to win, and that's what all the training and hard work is for. I love Kung Fu, but honestly I think I would train harder if I thought I would have to defend a challenge and use what I have learned, AND it would be more fun.

I realize there are MA tournaments, however I think they lack style and are not what Kung Fu is about. To me matches are supposed to take place on rooftops or at least the back of a restaurant, between two people, and there should be some hype leading up to it. I don't care if that's romanticizing Kung Fu. To me if you weren't interested in history and style you'd go for something else, like mixed martial arts.

I don't like mixed martial arts, and I don't like mixed-up and mangled styles. I think mixed martial arts are butt ugly - people rolling around and grabbing eachother wearing bathing suits and short-shorts. I guess you could say ultimate fighting is the modern equivalent of challenge matches, but if that's the case I'm not interested.

I don't expect everyone to share my opinion, that's what discussions are for.

Peace

I didn't take it as a challage to me I said you might run up against someone like me so you need to be careful.

Two people who are aware and both are willing to go at it is fine and I would be there to see it.

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

I dont think that challenge matches were meant as friendly competition I think they were more to try and boost the reputation of the challenger and ruin the reputation of their opponent, therefore stealing some of the current and future students

Man, you guys hit it on the nail!!! I've been thinking of challenging some dojos and gyms in cali for sometime.I look as challenge matches as a test not a way to prove my self but just a friendly spar is good as anything.

I myself have been thinking of playing at a few schools in my area. I think I mentioned this about a year or so ago on here. When I do, hopefully it will be nothing but friendly.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

only thing i have a problem with is people that arent' up front with us. I think also there is a difference between wanting to have a friendly amth and challenging a school. I don't mind having a friendly match but a challenge is somewhat disrespectful in my head. I mean if i came up to Jaws and said hey lets play a little, or if i came up and said Jaws I challenge you, i think it would be taken differently.
We had a guy come in saying that he wanted to try a class and see what skill some of our seniors had, so we treated him like a potential student so acouple people fought him but our sifu told to go easy and let him show his skill, then his sifu shows up and his family (which i still dont understand) and he got a bit of a beating but it just made us mad that he came under the pretense of wanting to join up which was all a lie.

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"Holy bat farts"
"Just remember there's many kinds of toughness in this world and not all of them involve kicking in someone's teeth to prove a point." SammyGirl Fan Club

I agree totally Prime. Coming with an open mind, or to have fun... even test a little skill is cool. Coming with intent will be treated as a threat.

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It's all about the nitty gritty.......

Great topic here. Sorry I didn't find it sooner.

In my opinion, there are a few reasons challenge matches are rare.

1. Because they are held in private.
2. Because real Kung Fu is still rare.
3. Because honor ain't what it used to be.

I'll tell a quick story.

The Kung Fu Master vs. the Karate Master

My Sigung, Ho Fatt Nam, was once visited in Malaysia by a Japanese Karate master. He issued a challenge to my sigung (as he did to every master he met). Many people showed up to watch the match.

After a bow, the Karate master charged my sigung and then threw a double flying kick. This was his "signature" move, and one that had beaten many other masters. No one knew how to respond. If they tried to step back, he followed with the second kick. If they tried to sidestep, he adjusted. If they tried to block, he went through.

My Sigung dropped to a kneeling stance in a pattern called "Catching Tigers in the Mountain." The Karate master flew right over him. When he landed, he bowed to my sigung, admitting defeat.

The crowd was disappointed. They didn't get it. How did the Karate master lose? Nothing really happened!

The Karate master knew that he had lost. He recognized the hidden groin strike in the pattern "Catching Tigers in the Mountain." Because he was an honorable man, he simply bowed and admitted defeat.

This is an example of a traditional, honorable challenge match. Unfortunately, this kind of thing doesn't happen any more. In the past, when a master touched another master in a match, the latter would withdraw and gracefully acknowledge defeat. Often, he would kneel down and thank the victorious master for sparing his life.

There is a phrase for this in Chinese: Duo1 xie4 shi1 fu4 shou3 xia4 liu2 qing2. It means, "Thank you, master, for showing mercy under your hands."

In those days, there was no need for a master to actually strike in order to demonstrate his force. It was common knowledge that every master would have trained to kill or maim with just one strike. Today, you are more likely to get an argument than a bow...

"That wouldn't have stopped me, man!"
"Iron Palm is BS!"
"The top of the head is protected by bone!"

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Anthony Korahais
Website: http://www.FlowingZen.com
YouTube: http://www.YouTube.com/FlowingZen

“	Originally Posted By: Antonius Great topic here. Sorry I didn't find it sooner. In my opinion, there are a few reasons challenge matches are rare. Because they are held in private. Because real Kung Fu is still rare. Because honor ain't what it used to be.	”

I agree, and just to ask a question to all you people who have legal knowledge say a guy comes in and challenges you and you beat the crap out of him could he sue? thats something i have always thought about.
I know my teachers has had to worry about that he teaches at a college and he always has people who are trying to test hi skill but he can't really hurt them or the college is liable. so how to challenge matches fit in in a legal aspect?

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"Holy bat farts"
"Just remember there's many kinds of toughness in this world and not all of them involve kicking in someone's teeth to prove a point." SammyGirl Fan Club

Yes, you can be sued and you can be prosecuted.
While in the scenario above the challenger is by implication consenting to the fight and the risk, it depends how far you go with the "beating". At law there is no such thing to consenting to death, or grievous bodily harm (GBH). So if you continue beating him after the stage where he is no longer capable of harming you, you have negated any possible defence to a civil suit and to a criminal charge. Generally the defence test in the criminal jurisdiction is that of "reasonable force" (ie reasonable force to deter any continuation of a physical assault).

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"Battles are won by slaughter and maneuver. The greater the general, the more he contributes in maneuver, the less he demands in slaughter." - Sir Winston Churchill

I missed a lot of this post so let me catch up.

If you want to go challenge people then go ahead. I understand what you're saying about challenge matches. I wouldn't agree that people here are too serious.I call it pointing out self destructive behavior. Like I said though if you want to challenge people then go for it. You may be fine for a while but it won't last. Masters don't play games. A challenge match to them isn't a neat way to get intouch with the roots of Chinese martial arts and while some of them may be nice and act in a way that will keepthings from getting too out of hand there are people out there that will just tear you up and not think twice about it.

Asking to work with people instead of telling them their kung fu is weak is about keeping on good terms with people. Some people don't really care for that approach. Theres another side to it though. You'll get better results. A lot of people won't accept a challenge but they will agree to working together on good terms. You'll get to work with more people and that will make you more skilled. Good Luck!

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-Ben

“	Originally Posted By: The Way I think mixed martial arts are butt ugly - people rolling around and grabbing eachother wearing bathing suits and short-shorts.	”

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